Breaking up with an Ice Addict Girlfriend

Title says it all, I'm breaking up with an Addict, she has been on Ice for a long time. I have been with her since November last year, I found out about the Ice in April this year after we'd broken up for a couple of weeks and she confessed to me when we got back together.
She swore at the time she wanted to get off it and would try. Part of the problem is that she surrounded by so called friends who all smoke it. For a month or two she seemed to be trying but then she went back into her old ways and started again, her work suffered and she had to quit 2 jobs, now she's just plain lazy, she told me yesterday she would start work last night at a new place and then called me to say she was tired and wanted to sleep, this caused problems between us and she then said she was tired of me and we were over ....again.
This past week she has been really bad, borrowing money from me to pay for the Ice until the last couple of days and I refused point blank to lend her money as she was now smoking it 3-4 times a day in my house.
I can't believe the change in her these past 2 weeks. Her smoking has got out of control, she's not been sleeping a lot but is eating well. I did notice her eyes are yellow now and don't know if that's to do with the Ice or something else.
I'm the one that needs help now, she still shows me in some ways that she loves me, she tells me that too. But I can't go on with her in this state, there's no talking to her as all I get is that she does everything for me and I do nothing at all for her which is unbelievable considering what I do for her !!! But that is her attitude now although 2 weeks ago when we were talking and I told her she needs to change or we're finished ( and she agreed ) and I asked her what I needed to change about me, her exact words were "you don't need to change, you're perfect for me".
What to do, I not sure I want to lose her but I can't let her drag me down with her because that's the only place she's heading now.
More to the story if needed but it is long with 1 or 2 twists and surprises !
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  • Hey I can relate to your problem so well so many times I heard this is the last time I took it for two years and now I'm trying to cut ties with my ex boyfriend it's not easy and he's changed me as a person it's a shame as i love him so much but I can't let him drag me down nomore I had no choice but to leave sorry your going though this
  • It's not easy is it eallen ? My head says to let her go, but even though I can't honestly say now that I love her I do still have very strong feelings for her and to be totally honest I couldn't say for sure that I wanted to finish it with her. 
    We're not in a Western country and getting rehab where we are is nigh on impossible or a bank loan is needed. There is a Narcotics Anonymous in our city and I am at this minute waiting for them to reply to me regarding help for her. The unfortunate part is that everyone tells me to leave her and that the only person that can help her is her and I not sure now she wants help ?
  • @bubblegum... Welcome to the forum. I'm very sorry to hear about your girlfriend and her drug problem. There's no doubt that loving someone who struggles with addiction is one of the most challenging and painful things life can throw at someone. My heart goes out to you.

    I think one of the most important things you can remember is what Al-Anon and Nar-Anon teach us about a loved one's addiction: "You didn't cause it, you can't control it, and you can't cure it." It doesn't matter how much you want your loved one to change; if they don't want to take the action necessary to change, or if they simply don't want to change, they will stay stuck where they are. That's the painful reality.

    You have to put yourself at the top of your priority list. The bottom line is YOUR life matters, too. You deserve to be happy and healthy, both physically and emotionally. That is your right as a human being. So you should do whatever you have to do to in order to make that happen.

    I'm not necessarily telling you to leave your girlfriend. I'm just telling you that YOU are important, too. If she wants to get help, then you can be supportive and see how things go. But please don't allow yourself to become addicted to her addiction. If that happens, you will both suffer immensely. When someone you love struggles with this disease, you have to practice self-care. It's absolutely essential.

    We are here for you to lean on anytime you need us. We can give you advice, support, or just be good listeners if you need to vent. We will help you any way we can. 

    I'm sending you lots of positive energy and hope. And I will keep both you and your girlfriend in my thoughts and prayers. You are not alone.
  • Thanks for that Dean. You may regret saying I can vent on here because there's so much more that I haven't said that's involved in this it's untrue.

    There was a councillor here who said he would help her, but he fell in love with her and started using Ice again himself to get her to his room for sex in return for Ice, luckily Karma can be a bitch sometime and he has recently been arrested for dealing and is currently in prison and looking at a long sentence.

    I understand what you're saying about putting me first and I agree. I would like to go no contact for a week or so to let us cool down but unfortunately there are reasons for us having to meet although I'm trying to work around that so we don't have to.

    The past 2 weeks have been difficult for me moneywise too because of some unexpected cash outgoings, partly due to her but not all so I have had to let my gym membership lapse so no working off the hurt and tension but hopefully in a few days that will be sorted.
    Anyone here know the possible cause of the yellow eyes ? It's a recent thing, is it down to her smoking the Ice or something else ?
  • Hi @bubblegum I know exactly how you feel I met my ex boyfriend four years ago he was an ex addict heroin and crack he had come out of rehab I met him fell in love I guess I believed in him then two years later he was acting strange I had no idea on an addicts behaviuor was all new to me finally after six months I realised what was going on feel silly for not knowing carried on thought I'd stop him reality was I couldn't I hate him for what he did and I won't forget or forgive easy for what I went through I've seen many things I wouldn't wish on anyone I guess I could say I got dragged into it I never used any drugs or anything I'm not that kind of person I used to drive around late at night looking for him never found him though used to drive me crazy I used to lend him money when he would scream at me saying he would kill himself or go and rob someone made me feel guilty so I did I gave in every time worn me down to someone I didn't want to be, once I deceived enough was enough I said no one day to lending him money so he text me saying he was cutting himself turned out this time he did I went charging round to his house the police were there he had cut his arms to pieces I cried he swore at me said get out said I didn't care I stayed then went in ambulance we got to hospital he swore at me asked for money I said no I needed it for a taxi he then left hospital and got drugs I don't know how wasn't my money he didn't care I was there or how I got home it was 1am in the morning even then I still forgave him looking back I went through hell I don't want to tell you to leave or to stay it's your descion im on day five of no contact and it's killing me but I have no choice I have my kids and a good job it's him or them so I have to stay away as hard as it is I hope in a few months il start to get over this sorry for the long post I could go on and on with the story's take care do what's best for you
  • As suspected it's all over now....Now I know its final I feel gutted....I tried to be fair...I tried to help.....Now I give up
  • @bubblegum... There's lots to read here. Just wanted to let you know that yellow eyes can be a sign of jaundice, which would be indicative of a malfunctioning or damaged liver.
  • @bubblegum  thank you for sharing. i can see that you are quite distressed... i do hope that you will make a decision to solely take care of you...and let her alone for now... 

    i found a lot of great help on youtube... if you can't get to a support group or counseling.... start watching youtube videos on codependency and nar-anon and al-anon.  can be of great help to you.... i know you want to  help her, but that's not your responsibility and she doesn't seem to want it.

    so focus on you. this may be challenging for you... maybe you like to focus on your partners... not sure, but maybe this is prompting you to take some time to focus on YOU.... 

    grieve the loss of her, but then move on. you don't have to live in such chaos...

    hope this helps.
  • @bubblegum there is a lot going on by what I have read unfortunely I learnt the hard way I stick around to long wish looking back I let go as soon as I knew but guess love is far to strong and somehow I always thought I would be able to stop him it took me two years to realise I never will
  • This is one mighty strange feeling I'm having now. Normally when a relationship goes wrong with me I feel no good for weeks, sometimes months, I felt gutted yesterday when I knew that it was all over but now I feel an almost surreal sense of relief ?. It's like I feel I should be sad and depressed but I almost feel relieved about it and that for me is very strange.
    It's like I tried hard to help her but very deep down I think I realised that we were going nowhere as a couple since I knew about the Ice use and maybe we were just using each other for our own means.
    Now all I can think of is the crap she gave me since I found out about the Ice, all the lies she told me. I've reread messages between us and I do feel like she's hurting now too. I do believe she loved / loves me but the lure of money and Ice will always trump a solid stable relationship which is what I was trying to give her. We had that at one stage but then other things happened and looking back now I know that the lack of ready cash was more than likely the cause of the ensuing problems.
    For the last month we ( mainly her ) had been talking about getting a house together and having her 7 year old son moving in. Now to me this was a definite no no. This kid is quite simply the most difficult child I've ever met and has no manners at all, when I've pointed this out to her she just came up with some lame excuse about it not being his fault ?.As i asked her when she suggested it "who looks after him when you're at work and I want to go out for a drink with friends ?". Her reply was " He's 7, he can take care of himself !". Hell he can't even tie his own shoelaces !  Even when she was talking about doing this all I was thinking was that there's absolutely no chance of that happening.
    I think back to the sleepless nights when she'd finish work and not message me and just go and smoke Ice and gamble with her friends. The abusive phone calls when she "knew" I had a lady here at my house. The insane jealousy on her part.
    Sure 2 weeks ago when we got back together after 2 weeks apart while she was with a customer and we got on well, it was lovely but then the Ice kicked back in again and I can see now the mood changes which I never saw at the time.
    I'm too old for this and to be honest I'm to good a person to keep getting dragged into stuff that quite simply is way beyond my knowledge. Everyone I have spoken with, friends, family help lines have all said the same DUMP HER AND DO NOT LET HER DRAG YOU DOWN TO HER LEVEL.
    I admit that yesterday when we finished I was gutted, I went out and had a few beers and I'll admit there were tears from me, but maybe now I can see they were probably tears of relief ?.I've slept on it and all I can say is that the light at the end of the tunnel is shining very very brightly now.
    People say she will be back, that I was her rock, her safety net ? I doubt that she will and even if she did I would be so suspicious of anything she said that I feel like I would be pushing her away before she tried to get back ?
    Now I need to keep busy, I have a small business to run here, I need to get back to the gym, I need to cut back on my smoking. I NEED TO GET MY LIFE BACK TOGETHER NOW AFTER THE TURMOIL OF THE PAST FEW MONTHS.
    I AM NUMBER 1 AND I WAS VERY TIRED OF BEING PUSHED DOWN HER LIST OF PRIORITIES.
  • Yes you do stay strong maybe let go before it gets to far trust me I stayed far to long be I regret it now made it harder for me I'm on day 7 now and this is a great achievement for me just hope I can keep strong to continue I need my life back now and be someone I want to be
  • @eallen 7 days is great, one day at a time is all you can do and just try to resist any temptation to contact him.

    I've just got home from the gym, I enjoyed it and I have to say I like the feeling, it was also nice to not have to worry about rushing it or someone would be having a jealous episode !.

    It's now 3 days for me since I saw her, there have been messages but no actual talking. She told me yesterday that she's going away with a customer so that might be a week or 2 weeks ? Who knows ?. Last time she went with him it was a week and I blanked her for 4 days and on her first day away she sent me some insanely jealous abusive texts, ironic really considering what she was doing and who she was with ! A couple of days later she sent me nicer messages and the next day we actually messaged and talked nicely, somehow I can't see that happening this time !

    I am going to a Narcotics Anonymous meeting tomorrow, I phoned them up and asked if I could come and see what was on offer, you never know there may be someone there that may have some sound advice, it should be interesting if nothing else.
  • @bubblegum that's great doing stuff for you I'm going to start getting myself fit again and making changes for me one week done Just hope I stay strong enough when I get home
  • Starting day 4 now of not seeing her now and no proper messages ( Second day of total no contact ). Last night I slept for a solid 8 hours with the help of a prescribed sleeping pill from the hospital, I'm not keen on taking them but I am the sort that needs sleep to function.

    I've been looking around this forum and maybe I'm wrong but it does seem to me that the addict / user is the one that's usually pushing away the person that is trying to help them ?. Please correct me if I'm wrong there ?

    She should be away today on "holiday" with this customer ( the fat man ). Strange that it's now 4 weeks since she first went away, time flies. My biggest problem is that I have no social life here whatsoever, I'm in party town but due to cash problems I can't go out, plus I have no real friends here at all.


  • @bubblegum that's great doing stuff for you I'm going to start getting myself fit again and making changes for me one week done Just hope I stay strong enough when I get home yes that's right they seem to push you away when you try to help but I don't believe it's because they don't care just the addiction is far to powerful that's how I like to see it anyway I do believe he does love me I just couldn't save him from the drugs
  • @eallen I think you're right about the drug being so strong, here's part of an email I've just sent to a friend
    I was allowed out in the afternoon, they gave me injections to sleep there and said my blood pressure had been sky high ? ***** was with me and when we got back home I went in the bedroom and just cried, I didn't know what the hell was happening to me, she came in and cried too saying how she loved me and never wanted to leave me ever and we will be together always
    But the need for Ice obviously was too strong and only 2 weeks later she has left me.
    Off to the gym now, legs today !
  • Damn it. Was just nearing the end of the second full day of no contact when she messaged me about a bicycle she had bought for her son that she'd left at my house and she was wanted to collect it tomorrow morning.
    I just answered ok to her and deleted them.
    Do I have to reset the counter back to zero now ?
  • @bubblegum no guess not you could just leave it out for her to collect at least you won't need to see her then or you could drop
    It to her and leave outside maybe
  • @eallen
    She messaged to say she would be here soon so I left the gate open and got out for a couple of hours.
    You know what ? I'm missing her but I genuinely do not want to meet her. I won't say I'm happy but apart from some negative thoughts now and again I'm fine.
    I went to an NA meeting last night as an observer. Spoke to the organiser before and after. His off the record advice was simple,YOU CAN'T HELP HER, SHE NEEDS TO WANT TO GET HELP FIRST AND THE LONGER YOU TRY TO HELP THE MORE DAMAGE YOU WILL DO TO YOURSELF.
    He then said I needed to practice tough love with her. Leave her alone now and mean it.
  • @bubblegum... I'm glad you went to an NA meeting. That's a big step. Remember the "Three C's" of Nar-Anon and Al-Anon: You didn't cause it, you can't control it, and you can't cure it.

    Your life is important, too. Don't forget that!
  • @bubblegum well done thats great you got out when she came I'm on day 9 now still tough but I'm not turning back two days left of my hols then home to reality that's when it will be hard for me , I'm going try go to al anon this week there is no other meetings around where I live so that's all I got will try anyway hope I get in the door as I suffer with anxiety and panic attacks so scared about it
    Life's to short enjoy it is my attitude right now straight to the gym when I get back
  • This isn't easy at all. It's now 10 days since she last left the house after writing  " I love you" and the date and her name on the back of a jigsaw she'd made and mounted ( excellent job she made of the jigsaw ).
    In that time I have made no first contact with her at all. There has been maybe 3 clear days of no contact, on the other days we have had to message because of business matters. It's always polite and no mention of the past or present, yesterday I had to visit her room mate to talk about something and I made a point of helping this room mate out a bit, hopefully that will get back that I did that and I am a nice guy ?  We actually had to speak on the phone and I could hear her voice, she sounded really pleased to hear my voice and it did feel good to hear hers.
    I really wish I could sit her down and try and help her get off the Ice. I said it before that when she's off it she's the sweetest girl I've ever met, I'd love that girl to come back but it's not going to happen is it due to this addiction.
  • @bubblegum hey there. thanks for the update. it's good for her to be away and hopefully she will begin recovery for herself at some point... for you..take some time to heal and nurture yourself.... even if she got clean now, she'd need a good bit of time to be single so she could work solely on her without anyone else in the picture.... but you cannot wait around... i know it's hard... that does stink, but i believe you deserve a healthy relationship with a sweet girl who is not in active addiction.... 

    we are here for you!
  • @dominica
    She's away with a paying customer ( She's a hooker, that's the only way to describe her ) the same customer as before and she told me when she was back last time that she takes the Ice with her to smoke. Simply because she says she needs it to go with the customers ?
    A full day of No Contact today and another good gym workout.
  • @bubblegum i understand... and good for you for detaching and getting on with your life.... have a  great workout!! and give yourself a pat on the back! :)
  • @bubblegum... Proud of you for detaching like you have. And it's good to go to the gym and work out. Self-care is incredibly important. Focus on YOU, my friend!
  • Well just an update in case anyone is interested.
    Towards the end of August she reached out to me, said she missed and loved me and thought about me all the time she was with the customer.
    We arranged to meet as she had told the customer she wanted to go and see her son but was going to stay with me.
    It was a disaster, I met her at her room and she'd been smoking again, we went to see her son and then came back to my house. She started off by being nice, loving, telling me how happy she was to see me and how good I looked.
    Back at my house she carried on smoking and she got worse and worse, not nasty but she was all over the place, she really was getting crazy, she was paranoid and was checking my phone, laptop and going through my bins checking for evidence of other ladies. She found nothing at all but that didn't stop the accusations.
    I hardly slept at all and she slept even less, she was constantly messaging the customer because in her words "I can't lose him to another lady as he pays me too well".
    The next morning he called and wanted her to go meet him to go drinking ( this customer drinks like a fish, gets absolutely drunk and expects her to do the same, I really do hate this man as he treats her like a navvy ), in the afternoon she came to see me as she wanted to go and buy us his and hers sunglasses ?. Then she went back to him after a smoke and a talk and they carried on drinking.
    The next day they were off again so he could go to work on the Monday, she didn't wake up until late but she came to see me and was crying because she thought I was going to finish with her.
    She came back to see me for the next 2 weekends and pretty much more of the same from her, the paranoia on her part was unbelievable.
    Then nearly 2 weeks ago it all exploded again. We arranged to meet for a drink, she turned up late as usual and then promptly took one look at me and how I was dressed and said you look good, you must have a new lady, I think we need finish ????. 2 minutes later we're fine again, that night she came to my house and again didn't sleep, she stayed the next day and night and again she didn't sleep. On the Monday night we had a big argument about the customer which ended with me saying that it's best we finish as I just can't do it anymore, she was crying and trying to convince me that he is a customer and she loves me alone.
    On the Tuesday morning she had to catch a bus at 5am to go back to the customer, now in the time she was here I'd seen all the messages between them, no love, no miss you, nothing except stickers, what you do, and a lot of food photos so I really did believe her when she said he was a customer and had no feelings for him at all.
    But I was tired, she was tired and while we were messaging to each other we both started getting angry, I was over the top jealous and said things that I probably shouldn't have said and she responded the same way.
    It ended with us both saying it's over and we finish.
    She sent me an SMS that afternoon asking me to take a bag of clothes back to her room and also tried to call but I didn't respond.
    She blocked me on Facebook while we were arguing and has probably blocked me on LINE as well. maybe even on her phone but I haven't tried calling her so I'm not sure there.
    So it's nearly 2 weeks of absolute no contact now, I do miss her and wish we could talk without the Ice kicking in but that seems impossible now. Her usage is getting worse from what I've seen when she was coming back here and that was the big stumbling block for me as well as my jealousy.
    So what to do now ? I'm doing the gym every day, I've been busy with work and I have been going out with friends and socialising and trying to keep busy, my sleep has suffered a bit though and there have been a couple of really bad days when I missed her a lot.
    Well, mini report over, I've glossed over certain things and missed out a lot of things to try and keep it shortish.
    Just got to keep going and doing the no contact, move forwards slowly on my own and get my own life in order so if she ever did want to see me again she'd see a better version of me that was there before and maybe she'd realise her mistake in not listening to me about the ICE.
    Doubtful but as people say, expect the unexpected !
  • The unexpected happened this afternoon......Her friend owed me money and came to my house to pay me, guess who was with her ?
    We smiled, asked each other how we were doing, I asked her half jokingly did she miss me and she smiled and said yes. I then said you can stay for a chat if you want but they had to go somewhere else and she said she may call back afterwards but didn't.
    It'd be nice to talk with her and see how she's doing and if she's still on the Ice all the time but I'm not running back after her now.
  • I'm glad you come in here to give updates, @bubblegum! My favorite part is this:
    "So what to do now ? I'm doing the gym every day, I've been busy with work and I have been going out with friends and socialising and trying to keep busy..."
    You and she are in my prayers...
    I'm sorry you had to run into here that way. Please keep yourself first!
  • @bubblegum  Thank you for the update. I'm sorry to hear that it didn't work out, but I am glad that you've had no contact for two weeks. This is just my personal opinion, but I would not look back. I know you care about her, but this is something that she has to come to terms with on her own. And that could take years or decades, no one knows.  Keep focusing on you and begin rebuilding your relationship with yourself, your higher power if you have one, and others. 

    I know you might not be able to see it right now, but there is hope for you to experience a very healthy relationship . the battle right now is in your mind, so do whatever you need to do to renew your mind .

    We're here to listen anytime.
  • @bubblegum... I echo what Dominica said. I think the experience you had during your recent contact shows that it's best for you to move on. And I'm extremely proud of you for not having any more contact for two weeks. I know it's probably not easy, but please realize that there is indeed a wonderful, healthy relationship waiting out there for you. And I know you will find it.

    Sending you big hugs and lots of loving, positive vibes. Take good care of yourself, my friend. Radical self-care is a wonderful thing.
  • Here's the weekly update.
    Last week on the Saturday, after turning up at my house unexpectedly she called me about 9pm. Could we meet for a drink, a game of pool and talk she asked ?
    So we met up. During our time at the bar she was constantly sending messages to her "customer" and eventually she asked what my plans were that night, I just replied that as she was messaging him all the time I would be leaving soon, she showed me the messages and said I'm telling him I want to sleep with my son so I can stay with you.
    We came back to my house, talked a lot and then made love. I have to say it all felt good, like we had that connection again.
    Then her friend called and wanted her to go and smoke Ice and I just said to her "Go".
    She went back with the customer the next day and off to his city. That was Sunday last week.
    Mon Tues and Weds this week there were lots of messages between us and the usual love you alone, not him, he's a customer messages but it didn't feel right so on Wednesday I just said to her to leave it until he was gone and there were no more messages. It didn't worry me, I went out that night and had a few beers and a laugh and a joke with some girls and came home alone.
    Thursday morning at 08.30 my doorbell is ringing. It's her. She had come down for her friends birthday the night before and wanted to surprise me ( check up on me to make sure no lady here ! ). She had told the customer she would be returning to him that morning on the bus but because she had seen I was alone she was staying now and would tell him she was staying with her son.
    Thursday we talked a lot.
    Friday we talked more and it got ugly, eventually I took her back to her room, during the talk she swore that she loved me only and he was a customer and I was better in every way than he was and she felt nothing for him. I took her to her room and just said call me when you not busy. Within an hour and a half she had called 3 times and came back to my house to see me quickly.
    Saturday there was no contact and today ( Sunday ) she will be off back to the customers city again.

    1st October now, I need to start new now.
    Her bottom teeth are looking like gaps are appearing, she also seems to be drinking whiskey more than ever. 
    I know I can't help her now, the fight for me to do that has gone from me. I am looking better than I've looked in years because of the gym and my head is clearing up too.
    I need to move on.
  • @bubblegum... Thanks for the update. It sounds like you had an emotional week. 

    I know it's not easy, but I think moving on is your best bet. You're right: You can't help her. She has to be the one to take the steps to get better. 

    Sending you lots of positive energy and strength. Take care of the one person you can take care of: YOU!
  • @bubblegum hey there! thinking of you and wondering how you're doing... 

    here for you!
  • @dominica
    Thanks for asking.
    She messaged me this last Monday ( the 2nd ) and has completely changed her tune now. She said that it was ok now for me to go with other women as she wanted me happy ?? Coming from her who is quite possibly the most jealous person I have ever known and blew a gasket if I mentioned another woman had spoken to me I found it rather strange but didn't push it.
    She also said she still loved me but not 100% now, this was the day after she swore again that she still loved and missed me and would do anything for me ? Again I didn't push it and just said ok to her.
    Tuesday was no contact and on Wednesday there was a missed call from her.
    Thursday we were messaging a bit and I asked why she'd called me. Her reply was "I call you because I want see you" ? Again I never pushed it and never jumped on it as an opportunity to invite her over. Nothing since those messages earlier tonight.
    I'm just getting tired of it now, the mood changes are worse than they ever were when we were together and so many people have said to dump her and she will only get worse and I have to believe them, 2 friends I know worked at re-hab centres in the US and both have been mortified that I was still even in contact with her let alone wanting to be with her and have told me their feelings in no uncertain terms.
    My feeling now is that "I'm not in love with her, I'm in love with who she used to be" and that girl has long gone.
    There are a couple of other things that I've seen but I won't post it here.....yet. Let's just say that when I saw it I just felt sick.

  • @bubblegum... It sounds like you've been on a roller coaster of sorts because of her emotions and behavior. I'm sorry to hear that. I hope that things will become clearer for you going forward, one way or the other. I can only imagine how tiring what you're going through is.
  • Update
    Tell me, is it wrong to just want to lie down, go to sleep and never wake up ?
    Am I wrong to feel that at 56 yrs old I've had enough with everything now and there just seems no point in making the effort anymore ?
    I have really tried this past couple of months to better myself but life keeps letting me stand up and then delivers another knock out punch.
    I'm seriously drunk now, sitting here and wondering what the hell have I done to deserve this.
    I don't want sympathy now, I don't want virtual hugs, I thought I had what I wanted but an Ice addicted girlfriend killed it. 
    People say addicts will beg steal or borrow to pay for their next fix. My ex girlfriend didn't need to, she used a womans best assets and got a good paying customer, she used me as back up, she has it easy with the customer, she says she doesn't want to work, why should she when she has a customer giving her money to pay for her addiction and he knows absolutely nothing about it.
    "You good everything, you 1 man I love but money win i am sorry good luck"
    I loved this girl, I wanted us together but the addiction won and the normal, good hearted person has been well and truly hammered.
    This has possibly turned into a relationship thread, I'm sorry for that but I'm sure many people like myself can relate to it.
    My view now is this, if you're in love with an addict and they will not change their ways then walk away and do not listen to their lies and pleas.
    Walk away.
  • @bubblegum... I'm sorry you're struggling. And yes, I have thought some of the same things you're thinking right now. FWIW, I'm also 56 years old and I have sometimes thought about going to sleep and not waking up. Because sometimes life throws some really difficult shit at us and it's really hard to deal with. But, you know what? We have to get up and fight with all our might to get through it. Because life is incredibly precious and we only get a limited time on this planet and we need to make the most of it. And enjoy it. And not let anyone or anything have so much control over us that we don't enjoy it. Winston Churchill once said, "If you're going through hell, keep going." That's how I try to live every day of my life. Is it easy? Absolutely not. And some days I fail. Some days I fail miserably, too. But I pick myself up and keep fighting.

    So, no virtual hugs for you. Just the words I wrote above. And the hope that you can start moving forward and find happiness again.
  • @bubblegum sorry to hear you’re still struggling and yes I have days I just don’t want to wake up today I have stayed in bed and done nothing all day I just have no energy I feel like giving up but I know I have to keep fighting and you can do find happiness and let go I’m trying to walk away I just keep getting more problems I’m still walking though and yes an addict definitely takes everything from you it is heartbreaking
    Take care of yourself
  • It's over now and this time I really need to mean it and get on with my life and put her behind me.
    After the last episode she went with her son to the customers condo in another city while he had gone back to America.
    Last week we met again a couple of times, she still said he was a customer and paid her well and treated her well and that was what she wanted, she didn't want to work. 
    She also told me that he was coming back here this last weekend but he'd be busy with work for the remainder of his contract and would probably only be able to spend 2-3 days with her at the condo in his city before he had to go off with work colleagues to another city and then near the end of the month he would finish the contract and head back home to America. 
    She still said that when he's gone she wanted us to live together again !!!
    She told me a couple of things when I asked about a previous episode and confessed she'd lied before to me, at this point I just knew in my head that the last 12 months have been a lie. 
    It's 12 months, 1 year ago today actually that we first met and a spark was ignited like I've never felt before.
    Last Friday night ( 27th Oct ) she told me she had an ex customer that wanted to see her and she needed the money so she was going. The money the current customer gave her before he went away had long gone, she "borrowed" money from me the day before !
    On the Friday night I went out for a few drinks with a friend and when I got home we started messaging, I got the usual "you have lady, you not alone I know" from her so in the end I just said goodnight and hope we can talk tomorrow ?
    We messaged the next day but in the end I just said to her that I'll leave you to it, everything I do is wrong and maybe call me next month when he's gone, if he goes at all, who knows what's the truth now ?
    Yesterday was no contact and then last night I saw her Facebook page. He's back and has splashed the cash on her and her son and she's thanked him and put a photo up of her and him.
    In a strange way it was a sense of relief for me, don't ask me to explain it but I knew then that it would never work between us.
    Now the really hard work starts, last night I had very little sleep, maybe 2 hours ? Sleep is always the first thing that goes with me and I do need it.
    I also had what felt like a panic attack ? It was weird, if I closed my eyes I just felt like I was out of control somehow so today I need go to a clinic and buy some sleeping pills or at least something to calm me down so I can sleep.
    Will update as and when anything happens.
  • @bubblegum ;Hey there. Thank you for the update. I'm sorry that you're struggling so much, but I am glad that you feel it's time for you to move on. Because it really is time for you to move on. You deserve so much more than this toxic relationship. I know that you cared about this person and I'm sure it hurts like crazy, but its necessary for you to go through this pain in order to begin to heal so that you can attract a better relationship. So that you can attract a person who is healthier and can walk in Integrity.

    I'm sorry that you're not sleeping. I do know what it's like to be and emotional mess after a breakup. I can also say though that sometimes the breakup is a relief and know that that pain and confusion won't last forever.

    There's a very good counselor that I like to listen to, and he specializes in relationships. I just found out this morning that he's got a new video library launching soon. He has over a hundred videos on relationships and just things in general that are helpful to people. It might benefit you to listen to some of them. I'm going to take some time this week to do the same thing myself. Perhaps it can help you get your mind off of that old relationship, and believe for something better in the future. For now, nurture yourself and know that you are worthy of an amazing relationship with yourself first, and eventually someone else.



    Again, thank you for the update and know that we're here for you
  • @bubblegum... Like @dominica said, it really is time to move on. Yes, you cared about her. But you deserve so much better. Relationships and love should be all about feeling good; not feeling bad. And you've suffered way too much, my friend. You are a wonderful human being worthy of being loved. And I know you will find that love down the road. For now, though, practice some radical self-care. Because you deserve it.

    By the way, that video library Dominica mentioned will definitely be a great tool. I can't wait 'til it's up and running.

    Sending you lots of positive energy. And hope for a much better and happier future.
  • Day 8 no contact today, there's been some bad days last week and I think more to come.
    I am not a happy man at the moment, not happy, not content, my confidence is oozing away.
  • @bubblegum... You are doing what I think you need to do. It won't be easy. And you'll have bad days, for sure. But I'm confident that your happiness, contentment, and confidence will all come back as strong as ever. You were suffering in that relationship. It was toxic. You need to put your well-being at the top of your priority list. 

    I'm sending you lots of positive energy and encouragement. Remember that we're here to support and help you however we can.
  • Day 11 no contact today, this equals our longest ever period of not talking, now I need to make it 2 weeks, then 3 weeks.
  • @Bubblegum stay strong I’m back to day 4 or not hearing from him I don’t contact him but hoping it’s the end
  • @eallen
    I'm sorry but I've never been strong in these situations.
    I hinted at this before in a previous post. I'm 56 yrs old now and I have to wonder what is there ahead of me to make me want to get to 57.

    I'm writing a list now, here's a couple of examples.
    I cling on for dear life to dead relationships because I
    hate the feeling of being rejected.
    I’m 56 yrs old and I don’t want to get to 57.
    My friends have disappeared due to my constant depression caused by this last relationship with the addict.
    My family never contact me unless I contact them first.
    I remember how I used to be, quite a good looking man but
    now I think I look f*****g shite.

  • @bubblegum... There's always something to live for, my friend. As a fellow 56-year-old, I understand the feeling of getting old and not quite looking like you once did. But life is a wonderful thing. Keep making that list. And don't forget to include simple and beautiful things that you may take for granted. There are so many out there.

    Also, don't be afraid to reconnect with your friends and family. There's nothing wrong with reaching out and explaining things to them. And telling them you want to be closer. 

    It sucks to lose a relationship. It really does. But to let it control how you feel about your life is giving it way too much power.

    I will keep good thoughts and say some prayers for you. You have a lot of life ahead of you. If you truly feel like you don't want to go on, please pick up a phone and ask for help. You are incredibly worth it.
  • @DeanD
    Pick up a phone to who ? I live in Thailand, there is no one to pick a phone up to call.
  • @bubblegum totally agree with dean.... don't give up on you... there is always hope and baby step by baby step... you can experience life in a way that makes you feel happier and more peaceful... even if the past has been crap!! :)  

    how are you doing today?
  • Hey, @bubblegum... Just want you to know that I'm thinking about you today. I know what you're going through isn't easy. But I also know you can get through it. I'm sending you lots of positive energy, my friend. Let us know how things are going if you get a chance.
  • Ok days now and bad days, my emotions are up and down like a yo-yo.
    I heard she was back in my town last week but no contact. Now on Day 16 of no contact.
    She must have been here alone without her customer because I got told she was touting for business, at least she used to tell me when she had customers, this customer of hers would get such a shock to his system if he ever found out, I can only pray that at some stage he does.
    I'm in a Catch 22 situation here. I like to be in a relationship, but when I'm in a relationship here, because of the cultrual differences it usually develops into problems. So my dilemma is to be single and not happy or be in a relationship and not be happy !
    But for now I'm trying to get on with things, sleep is suffering in a big way which is not a good thing for me. I also need an urgent loan to pay for medical treatment of $1200 which I have no idea how to get ?
    So, problems, problems, problems here all the time.
  • @bubblegum... Sixteen days is a good stretch, and I'm proud of you for achieving that. I know it's not easy. But you're making progress. Keep taking things a day at a time. 

     If it were me, I would definitely give myself a break before getting into another relationship. I'd give myself some time to heal and I'd take good care of myself. But that's just my two cents.

    I hope you can somehow get that loan you need. Life is full of little problems all the time. We just have to navigate them the best we can.

    Have a great week, my friend.
  • Over 3 weeks now of no contact, it's difficult and there have been some really bad days.
    Today I have to go for a hospital appointment to see if they can sort me or not, then I have the worry that even if they can help me the costs will be way out of my league !
    Being with an addict was draining, trying to break away from one that I still love is even more draining and the past few days I have been exhausted. Last night I lay down about 8pm and had a read of a book, woke up at 3am for a toilet break and went back to sleep and woke about 6.30 this morning.
    I suppose I could look at the bright side and think that because she hasn't posted on her Facebook page ( yes I know but I do look sometimes ! ) since our last words that maybe she's not feeling too good about it either ??. Maybe she has realised that the man she said she loves and was her rock has had enough of her ? 
    Still not been blocked on Line too which usually happened before so maybe she's waiting for a message ? She said she was upset before when I didn't message her something but who knows ?

  • @bubblegum... I'm proud of you for not having contact with her for over 3 weeks. I know that isn't easy, but I think it's the best thing for you. I also hope your hospital appointment goes well. Try not to worry about the money part. The important thing is that you get back to feeling good and keep moving forward.

    Sending you healing vibes.
  • @DeanD ;
    Thanks, the hospital appointment went far better than I expected. The Doctor was totally honest and explained that he could do it there and then under local anesthetic. Then the cost was discussed without me and when they called me in and told me how much I was gobsmacked. 10x less than I was expecting so I told him let's do it now. When it was finished and they gave me the bill it was actually less than they told me !
    Seems like I had quite a problem but he says it should be fine and I have to go back on Sunday for a follow up. Only downside to it all was that just before I went to the hospital I stubbed my toes, so now I am literally hurting from head to toe ( the operation was on my face ).
  • @bubblegum... That's terrific news! I'm so glad the hospital appointment went so well! It's so great when things work out much better than we expected, isn't it? I'm sorry you stubbed your toes, but I hope you are fully recovered from everything soon. I'm sending you another batch of healing vibes, my friend.
  • Update
    28 days no contact now but I have to say that this last week has been bad, very bad. 
    Because of the operation I've been laid low so no going out which hasn't helped at all, can't go to the gym and because of the stubbed toes going for a walk is difficult as well now.
    Rumour has it she's back in my city now, if what she told me was true then the customer may have gone back to the States now ? But what to believe and what not to believe ? I would assume that if he has gone then she will have a customer or two lined up as any money he gave her will be gone soon enough.
    I have a sneaky feeling she may get in touch if he has gone back ? Doubtful but it is just a feeling ? I still do believe that somewhere inside her drug fuddled brain she did / does love me ? Some things she said and did when we were together makes me feel that she may have been missing me this past month ? 
    Maybe she is taking what I said in my last message to her literally "like i said before, i hope u get good
    money from him and maybe see u next month sometime...".
    That was the end of October and he turned up the next day.
    To many maybes there, if she does contact me then so be it, if not then I have to look at this way and she has often said this to me before. I have seen the state of most of her customers, they are not attractive men at all. She has always said I am better in all ways than any of them especially this last one, unfortunately they all have one thing that I don't have.....MONEY. No winners here only losers !!!

  • @bubblegum,
    I started reading your posts from the last couple of months,even August.You seem to be going through some difficult situation there,some trying time but chin up!:) Don't let her way of life get to you, you deserve better than this and I also wouldn't count on her having feelings for you.This is not the way people act when they have feelings  for somebody.There is a huge gap between what she says about her feelings and what she does to you,how she treats you in the meanwhile.This is a HUGE red flag.Sorry,but I have to be honest with you and give you my take on this,it seems to me like you are trying to hang on to some hope there that you and her can work things out eventually.I find this highly unlikely from what I've read in you posts.Don't do this to yourself— checking her messages and posts on Facebook is NOT a good idea.This brings you back to square one.Maybe you are jealous of this other man she's on and off with,it's understandable,but you should know that your jealousy maybe stems from the fact you wonder what is he giving her more than you emotionally,except for money,you begin to doubt your self-worth and feel not worthy of love,and also your ability to have a relationship.Such people don't connect to others on a deep emotional level,she is NOT capable of emotional attachment,she doesn't have feelings for the other man either,just manipulating him the way she is doing this to you.You can't let go of her because you have become addicted to your drug of choice- the addict.You just become addicted to the addict,to taking care of them and when you separate,you feel like an addict going through withdrawal symptoms.People can also feel like a drug,not just substances.I hope you can understand what I mean.
    What you see on Facebook is NOT the real thing,it's an edited version of what they WANT you to think about their life.It's an " old trick" emotional manipulators use to make you think they have the "perfect"  life,this is a way of keeping you under their control,they know EXACTLY what and why they are doing this,don't think it's a coincidence.She hopes you check and see the photos.I would strongly advise you to change your Facebook account or block hers,block her phone numbef or change yours,don't look at the rubbish she is posting,it keeps you away from your recovery.
    You say that you fear rejection and this is exactly what an emotional manipulator picks up on,it's not by coincidence she is doing this to you,she KNOWS your vulnerabilities and is using them to the best of her abilities.How do you see a possible future with her? It's highly unlikely that she will change her habits ,unless she WANTS to but you know this is not the case.Her behaviour has nothing to do with you, it's a reflection of the person she actually is.Try to concentrate on you and find out why you fear rejection,why you end up taking care of problematic people who hurt you and find something which will make you fulfilled and happy.Find a hobby if you must.I find listening to music VERY helpful in healing.I watch videos and read about narcissism and co-dependecy .Try to find the meaning behind the events that are happening to you.I also listen to guided meditations,Jason Stevenson's are great.Don't worry about your age so much,people much younger than you go through the same things.Just considef every challenge as an opportuniity to learn and grow,as a life lesson on our journey.Try to live in the moment,to appreciate the here and now and the future will take care of itself.You cannot control other people's behaviour but you can control yours,your emotions and responses to events.You should be in control of your life!Not easy but doable!Don't worry about relationships,you need some time to heal from the previou one!You should stay no contact and go on with your life and AT LEAST three,or six months or even a year try to concentrate on your healing and your issues before even considering another relationship,that's what I've read and heard about such situations.Hope this helps!Nurture yourself,you deserve it and work on your self- awareness or you'll end up being hurt again!
    Take care and have a nice day!
  • @bubblegum... I think @changeyourself's comment is spot-on. 

    Sending you more positive vibes. I hope you're able to get out of the house again soon.
  • December 1st, update.
    November has gone and no contact at all.

    Rumour has it she's back in town ?. She did also tell me before that there was a possibility of an ex customer taking her sometime this month, this customer was a big payer before but I remember the same thing happened last year with him and it didn't happen.

    I went to see a councillor this week. An American man, nice man too. We talked a lot and we're meeting again next week to see if we can get any more insight into why I get so down when relationships end, could be helpful or not ? I hope it is. I did mention co-dependency to him and we went through it and it was inconclusive, a lot of yes / no answers so maybe a little bit ? She's definitely not a Narcissist though that is 100%.

    Last Sunday I think I finally hit rock bottom. I'd been to the hospital and it all went well there, looking good but coming back home I was in a mess, everything hit me, I was crying and screaming and just in a very bad place. I went to a bar at 12.00 and just started drinking, my friend came and met me and I was in tears with him, I couldn't explain to him what was wrong, my head had completely gone and I was in a mess.

    There's all sorts of things going on with me, I moved here from the UK 11 years ago and burnt my bridges in the UK so no going back now plus it'd be virtually impossible for me to get all my licences and exams and medicals sorted to get any sort of my old work back, also who would want to employ someone at 56-57 with an 11 yr blank in their work record ? 

    So I'm stuck here now and on a personal level I'm struggling. I'm just going through the motions now, one of my biggest problems is that I have nothing to look forward to. I'm not interested in going out unless it's just for an afternoon cup of tea somewhere for a chat with a friend. I'm not interested in meeting a woman, just very little interest in anything now, it's like the life has been sucked out of me ? I'm still going to the gym but even that's becoming hard work now.
    I just can't get my head around the thinking here in this country. I should know by now that money is number 1 and trumps everything but I still just can't understand how 4 out of 5 of my last girlfriends have left me to go with, dare I say it ? Men who basically have money and nothing else going for them ? All of the women except for one who was just an absolute bitch from hell ( she did tell me a year later she did love me but we were just no good together ? ) swore they loved me and after we had finished all made it known to friends or to me that I was still in their heart, not the new man. 
    EDIT...Just reread this last bit through and decided to add an edit, the point I'm trying to make is I just cannot get my head around this thing where women here can be with someone that's not in their heart but is a good provider rather than be with the man they love and is in their heart ?

    So now I just carry on. It's her birthday next week, everywhere I look on Youtube it says no happy birthday wishes to her, no contact full stop. This week I was so tempted to just send her a message asking how she was but I managed to talk myself out of it. 
    Ok, enough now, maybe add more later but at the moment if I carried on writing here I'd be here all day. Maybe add more later, maybe not ?
  • @bubblegum... Glad to hear you saw a counselor. I think that will really help you if you see him regularly.

    I know it's not easy, but let her birthday go. You've done a great job of not having contact. Don't be tempted into doing something that might make you feel even worse.

    You are welcome to come here anytime to get things off your chest. 

    Sending you tons of positive energy.
  • Just had it confirmed now that her customer, the fat man is paying for her to rent a house with her son and paying her a "wage" while he is away and she is not going back to work as a dancer. 

    I do think she'll still be touting for business to help her Ice expenses though because she can never say no to money ? I do hope so and I'd love for him to find out. Maybe she might kick the Ice but I really believe the boredom she will have now will have her smoking it while the kid is at school and when he's in bed, plus the easy money is going to make buying it a lot easier now and so a lot more difficult to give up.

    I know where the house is located, it's on an estate that I believe the Americans would refer to as a "trailer trash" type of place ? So plenty of places where she can get the stuff there.

    As for her birthday @DeanD I was half tempted to say happy birthday to her but now there's no chance whatsoever. I do tend to take being lied to  by anyone very badly indeed. I'm not the sort that can wish her well now but at least I know now that there is no chance of any sort for me and her and I can move on now. The customer can have her s**t now.

    Strange thing is that today in the market in town there was a tarot card reader, she spoke English so I thought what the heck, give it a try. 
    "Shuffle, cut and pick 12 cards" she said, I picked 12 cards. 
    First 3 or 4 cards were turned over and she just looked at me and said "You have lady ?".
    "Maybe, you tell me" I replied
    "Lady have 2 men" she said "You and other man, you in heart but other man have money, she is Thai lady want money"
    She said it was over too and she wasn't coming back or maybe I misunderstood because she kept saying the New Year lady come ???, she also said some other stuff and one or two things really caught my attention, probably nonsense but who knows ?????
  • @bubblegum ; thanks for the update.... it's good that you steer clear and keep going on with your life.... i do believe some people are intuitive and can "read" us.... so maybe you got to encounter such a person!
  • @bubblegum,
    You know what,it takes a really good therapist who has worked and dealt with narcissists to be able to diagnose one,we are talking here not flat out narcissist but maybe more like narcissistic behaviour,when you have an addiction,you also tend to have narcissistic behaviour which goes with it.You don't say what you think leads you to end up in such situationsif it is a pattern, not just an isolated case,maybe you should start with identifying the reasons for this pattern.To me,this statement which the women tell you is (sorry to use the epression) a bunch of nonsense.Think about it for a while— what woman in her right mind and with a healthy lifestyle will tell a man she has feelings for him but because she doesn't want to work,chooses to be with another man?If you detach from the situation for a while and imagine,let's say, your friend in a similar to yours situation,what will  you think of the women involved as helpless victims who life has pushed into a corner and choose money and comfortable life over feelings?Can it become more toxic than that?it If anyone has true feelings for another person they will want to see them happy,not make them miserable by saying something like that.It reads like something you would say to someone you want to have hooked in the line and not let them go on with their life but torturing them by just repeting an empty phrase but not showing it  with actions ?Feelings and true intimacy don't show in this way.They sound like problematic,immature people to me...
  • @bubblegum,
    I am kind of interested in astrology and can see why you are turning to unconventional ways of trying to find clues for the future,in challenging tomes we are willing to try unusual ways of  finding inner peace and also hope for the future...Though I have not practised Tarot reading.
    If you are in a problematic situation,go with your feelings.If someone or something is turning you into an emotional mess,you should get rid of it ASAP.And you know what they say:"When it can't get any worse than that,when you have hit rock bottom,the only way from there is up,it gets better."Hope this cheers you up a bit!Take your time, experience your emotions,it'll get better with time!Let go of the past,what could have been if only...We can't change the past,just learn to live with it,the future will be brighter ...
    Take care and keep working on finding the true you! Build the best relationship with you first and then think of starting relationships with other people,that's what I am trying to do,it works for me for now!
  • @changeyourself
    You raise some good points but I will point out that here in Thailand it is a totally different culture to the Western world. Women here value security ( money ) more than love and that is 100%. Love doesn't buy food is one of the most popular sayings.
    Thinking about it now it goes on everywhere really, look at Donald Trump, Bernie Ecclestone and 100's and 100's of sportsmen and so called celebrities and those Russian billionaires, do you think that the vast majority of them would have that stunning lady on their arm if it wasn't for their bank account ? Do you think that if Donald Trumps wife loved me and had to choose between me and him she'd choose me ?
    Unfortunately I'm a believer in love so I'm in totally the wrong place to find it as I'm now aware. My thinking now needs to change and I need to learn to turn off my emotional side which isn't going to be easy for me.
    It's changed so much here since mobile phones became the number 1 toy for these women. It's now so easy for them to just find the highest bidder and believe me they are experts at it.

    Me now ? I knew in my head that we couldn't be together, it was that part of me that remembered the limited good times we had together. that yearned for a future of that but in my head there was no way it could happen. The Ice, the drinking, the trust had gone, her son, no way would it have worked out.  
    Deep down I do believe she did love me, some things she did and the way she acted make me believe that was true but money is number 1 here and the customer has it and I don't. End of.
  • @bubblegum,
    I guess what you are referring to about Thailand here is that women are brought up to behave in a certain way and expect men to provide for them,but then the examlpe you give about Trump and his wife shows the same thing happens in the western world as well.I live on the Balkans, in Eastern Europe and can tell you that the same thing happens here as well,for SOME women to prefer money and "security" in your words.But the key word here is SOME women in ALL places around the world.You are a believer in love,you say.But what do you mean by "love"?Feelings,caring about each other,protection,security,sharing common interests,hobbies,having a common goal,being headed in the same direction in life-all these things are part of being in love.Did you have all these things with the woman jn question?I very much doubt it.Money is important,I wouldn't deny it or I'll look like a hypocrite here,but as long as it gives people security for them and their family and provides a stable home and some comfort.Because if you just profess feelings for someone but not do your share of the work by either earning money or contributeing to the relationship and the family well-being in some other way ,you are not a mature, responsible person.Start from here and look for a woman who shares your views.Because those examples you give with certain women seem more like a Business Contract to me,not love.Which  makes it problematic.Maybe you have a lot of bitter experience with a certain kind of women,that's why I wrote to you to examine your pattern with problematic women.I'm telling you NOT ALL women are like that and even if a good number of them out there do it,it doesn't mean it is OK.It just means there is a great deal of people who need to work on some issues in their lives.
    There are a lot of confused people all around us but it's up to us to choose who we get entangled with. If we have unresolved issues, we'll keep stumbling over such people,no matter the place or the culture we live in.Human nature is the same everywhere,the only difference is acquired behaviour from the way they were brought up and the culture they live in.
    I will once again bring up the question of narcissism,if you don't mind because it explains so many things.Such people have the same pattern of behaviour, no matter the country they live in.They always use people as objects of narcissistic supply and then discard them when they no longer serve them.Speaking of Trump,he is a classic example of narcissistic behaviour,classic.As for his wife,narcissistic people need to always be in the centre of attention,it's all about them,everything and everywhere they need the eyes of people on them.To them people are objects to be used and exploited.I'd guess that Trump's wife serves this purpose perfectly,showing her around,"How about that!Look what I've got!Am I THE MAN or what ?"Like a typical narcissist he owns a pretty object to show off and he thinks people will envy him for it.Well,some of his breed might,not people in their right mind. Please,he IS pathetic!And when I think he has the same sun sign as me,Gemini,it's embarrassing even to think about it. :) Just trying to cheer you up a little bit.
    Never mind Trump,you are worthy of a good life and you should try to get it for you.Frankly,when I read that the woman you were dating didn't want to work,that there tells me it's a deal-breaker stuff.It's one thing if the culture doesn't encourage women to work and they are deprived of a way to support themselves but she has a son,you say,she is supposed to support him and show him a healthy model of behaviour,it's not about her only,it's about her child as well.Here is another thing - if you had a child from this woman,is this what you would have wanted for your child,is this the kind of woman you want to have a child with?What do yoj think of ber as a mother?
    You should think about what is deal-breaker behaviour for you and stick to your guns.For me when I read her reply about her son being able to take care of himself at 7 yeras of age is a huge red flag.I thought to myself: "She doesn't know what she is talking about!Or she just doesn't care".Either way it's problematic.I have a 16-year-old son and what she is saying is ridiculous!Besides you say her son has problematic behaviour but if you live with her where does he fit in the whole picture,you can't just ignore him,pretend he doesn't exist, can you imagine yourself being "Daddy" to this child?
    Maybe you should ask yourself the question "Do I consider myself a complete person the way I am?Do I need to be in a relationship to feel complete and if so why do I need another person to make me feel complete?"You'll always end up in this situation if you feel you are not enough the way and who you are.If you want to be with someone because you think you are getting older,because this is what everybody does and you are supposed to do or any other reason,find it and explore what's behind it.There is a statement I heard in a you-tube video a while ago:"So within,so without!"You get back what you put out— if you keep doing the same,you'll get the same end result.Period.:)
    Take care and enjoy your day!
  • @bubblegum,
    I came across your previuos posts again,the one where you say she is jealous like crazy about you being with another woman -this right here is another sign of problematic behaviour.Why is she jealous of you?Because she is insecure of her own worth or she knows she is not giving you what you want in terms of commitment and trust and expects you'll do the same to her?Maybe she thinks if she were in your shoes,this is exactlg what she would do to the man?You have all the right to do to her what she does to you,wouldn't you agree?What's the big deal?The big deal is that narcisdistic people want you in their control,they are insecure within themselves,need constant affirmation that they are THE ONE and only, you are their possession and will never give you closure so that you can move on with your life - because it's not about you,it's never been, it will never be.It's all about them and their needs and insecurities.Some time ago,just after I separated from my son's father,I was soooo bitter and resentful about him cheating on me,that I was all about getting revenge and doing the same to him,just find some random guy for random sex.You know what,I couldn't do it!I was furious, yet something within me prevented me from doing this.From the present point of view,it was childish behaviour,maybe!But the valuable thing in this experience is that I learned something abkut me - that I am a person who needs to be emotionally involved in a relationship before moving on the the sex part.And that's essential to know !Turns out I don't believe in casual sex,I believe in commitment and emotional connection first!Have you asked yourself the question what this relationship has taught you about you?
    You are wasting your time with such a person,you'll feel miserable and wonder what you have done wrong and what you can do to make them change and see your side of the story.Jealousy is the feeling of insecure people,typical of those who fear rejection and treat other people as possessions.Don't flatter yourself with this,it's NOT an expression of love!It's highly problematic behaviour,very immature and also childish!
    The thing with sex and narcissists is the folowing:they view sex as a weapon,rely on sex to keep you hooked in,most are very good at it and the sex is really intense.So, when you try to leave them,this is something else you are going to miss and obsess about!But if for me sex is an emotional connection.too,not just physical,for a narcissist it's just a physical thing.That's why they can be with multiple partners and think nothing of it.Most of them have double lives,too.But the truth is they don't even like sex,because for healthy people sex is a give -and -take.Narcissists only take.they don't want to give you anythkng.It's just another tool they use to manipulate you!Another trick in their performance!
    So,if you tell me I have good points,I know I have because I have experienced an abusive relationship and have thought a lot about it,read,watched videos etc.
    Slow down,detach ,ask questikns and look for answers in your own experience ,share and try to relate to other peolpe's experience!
    Best of luck!
  • @changeyourself
    You make some good points in there and just off the top of my head I'll reply to a couple.
    Where I live is often described as the sex capital of the world ? I can walk out of my house and have a fantastic looking, sexy 20yrs old girl in my bed within minutes, but I choose not to do that, I'm the sort that likes to have feeling with the girl I'm in bed with, sure I've done it but the feeling at the end of it all was never as good as with someone that I had feelings for, never.
    With this one there were feelings, I think we slept together a couple of times before we even had sex ?. Now I knew she was a prostitute from day 1, she also told me from day 1 that she didn't want my money she wanted me, she has also told me right up to when we finished that she could only come with me because she only had feelings for me, the last time we made love she was holding me and just kept saying "M**k, I f***ing love you so much" over and over. I know it could have been an act but if it was then the physical signs are seriously hard to disguise don't you agree ?
    The son, I tried with him, I really tried but to say he was difficult would be an understatement, she tried to get him to talk English with me but in the near year we were together he never said anything, maybe goodbye once but no more. I took him out with me, let him help me with my work which she told me he enjoyed, taught him how to use the pool game on Facebook but we just never hit it off at all which is weird to me because I'm usually very good with kids. 
    When she was laying out her terms and conditions for coming back to live with me and she said he would come too I knew then that no way would we ever get back together, I may have said before that my head knows it's over but part of me really does miss her sometimes.
    I agree and disagree with what you have written, one thing I will say is that here in Thailand, especially where I live it is almost impossible to find a woman that doesn't want money more than love. The girls here often have many men sending them money and if one or more drops off the radar another will soon replace them. That is the nature of the beast here.
    Me now ?. Whatever will be will be and expect the unexpected now. I'm taking some time out, I go out locally for a few beers a couple of times a week and have a laugh and a joke with some girls but I have zero interest in either bringing them home or finding a girl to start a new relationship with.

    Are you really still in love with her, or are you just tired of
    being sad?

    Tired of being sad.

    Do you miss being with your ex specifically, or do you just miss
    the comfort of a relationship with someone who knows you? 

    A relationship

    Do you really want to change for this person, or would you
    rather be with someone who does not require you to change at all?

    She actually said when I asked her did I need to change, no she said, you're perfect as you are. Obviously I'll put that down as a "glitch in communications !"

    Has she changed?

    Yes

    Is she happy?

    I think she is now, she has made her decision to go for money and she doesn't have to work, perfect for her.

  • @bubblegum,
    I can feel in your posts a lot of resentment still,it'll take time for you to let go. From what I can see she has not changed at all,it's only you who is obviously not OK with the situation any more because you have feelings for her.Physical intensity is not a sign of emotional attachment,that's what I'm trying to explain.Besides,how do you know she doesn't say such things to other men,too.Because she tells you so.See,the only source of information is her.Problematic people will tell you anything you want to hear ,that's part of the problem with them,that's why it"s so difficult to break up with them.But it doesn't mean they are honest with you,especially if they have an addiction,too ..It's part of the game and it's difficult to know whether they mean it or not.They'll tell you you ard the only one,their soul-mate,they've never felt this way for anybody else,all the things you want to hear.But do you FEEL that way? No.And then you begin to experience what's called cognitive dissonance.You think this person is telling me how much they love me,so it must be true but why don't they show me they love me?Why doesnt she want money from you?Because she someone to give it to her.But if she were to be with you and you have to support a family,both of you,what will she say to you then?Will it be that she doesn't want any money,only you.The whole situation is not real, I don't see any real-life experience of a healthy couple here,sorry....
    You know your situation best - only you know why you hooked up with this kind of woman,in the first place,even when you knoew what she is,what did you expect from this relationship,have you asked yourself this?You didn't answer my question what did the two of you have in common,common goals etc. Did you feel protective of her or something like that?What were the feelings based on,physical attraction being the most common?Did she look vulnerable and insecure and you wanted to protect her from "the cruel world"?Only YOU know the answer to this,it's within you.She will always be the same kind of woman,it's her decision and choice,it's who she has chosen to be.
    It's so sad to hear that in the 21 century women ard still treated like objects and consider themselves not worthy of respect,as objects to be sold and possessed in some parts of the world.I still find it hsrd to believe that there are no independent women there who know their worth and won't settle for crumbs.I watch the news,I know how girls and women are in this part of the world but you know what why does this still exist,who is to  blame-when there is the demand for a certain service,there is the supply -who hire those women and pays them?
    I'm not sure whether you ,by any chance ,are fond of this fairy tale idea that you meet your "true love" and, no matter the different background,social status,traditions,etc. "true love beats all" ,because of all this love a woman who sells sex will change and become a housewife,cleaning the house and cooking and laying the table?Why bother when there is an easy way out?Maybe your ego of a man is wounded here but real life shows a lot of examples that the opposite is true.People want to change only if they decide to or life forces them to by them hitting rock bottom and saying to themselves this cannot go on,something has to change and .The fairy tale world of " they lived happily ever after" is not how things work in real world.She is who she is,you are who you are.Both of you can change only if you choose to or if you are forced to.Did you expect her to change for you or you are just OK in a relationship of this kind?If you are OK with it and knew from the beginning,why all the turmoil you go through,you should know what you are dealing with and what to expect from this relationship (and if sex is cheap there,BTW,it's so in every region of the world where women are dependent on men for support.and have low income,and also where laws are not applied strictly because some people benefit from this situation,where there is a demand and a supply and not many people care what's happening).
    I don't know why you asked her whether she needs you to change,it's a strange question to ask.You don't need to change for anybody, you should decide whether to change or not because only you are in control of you.And since only you are in control of what you do,you ard supposed to choose how to deal with this situation...
    You say you miss not the person only but the relationship,which means you crave intimacy,security,sharing etc.Maybe these are your vulnerabilities you should work on .....
    Maybe you believe that if you give love,understanding,caring etc to someone,they will appreciate it and want to be with you for who you are...No,it doesn't work this way,I'm afraid,if you have the wrong person in the relationship...
  • So here's an update on my situation and it's not good.
    My operation that I had, that I thought had been successful has turned into a nightmare.
    On Monday afternoon I noticed a little bit of pain where they'd done the operation and also a slight swelling, nothing to worry about I thought and just kept putting ice on it. By 8pm that night it had swollen like a balloon and the pain was terrible, I needed to get back to the hospital but the department I needed didn't open until 08.00 the following morning.
    I was in so much pain that even though I took 4 decent sleeping pills I could not sleep, painkillers didn't touch it either. 
    My sister who claims to be a world authority on all things medical suggested dabbing it with warm salt water !!! WTF sis, great advice......not.
    So the next morning after a sleepless night I go to the hospital which is 35km away from my house. I get to see the doctor and he looks at it and says we need to operate again. Problem was that it was so painful that getting near me with a needle to inject it was a hell of a job for him, agony does not describe what I was feeling.
    When he made the incision I could feel what felt like water running down my face, turns out this was pus. Even though he'd given me a local I could still feel him pulling on stuff and cutting it out. 
    The operation finished and I felt like crap, my head was spinning, I think I was in shock ? I have no idea but there was no time for recovery and it off upstairs to pay and then downstairs to get my medicines and then I'm on my own.
    I'd ridden my motorbike over there and as I started riding I knew I had a problem and within a kilometre I stopped and needed to get some deep breaths going. Then I fainted.
    I woke up surrounded by 5-6 women who were all concerned, one of them had the smelling salts on me and another went and bought me water, I had also cut my arm when I'd fainted and luckily I was opposite a fire station and a couple of firemen came over to see if they could help, great people and I'm really grateful to them.
    The firemen helped me over to their place and let me lie down on one of their beds as I'd told them all I wanted / needed was sleep. I rested for maybe an hour and then said thanks and came home, slowly. The rest of that day was spent sleeping, eating small snacks and then sleeping again, I felt like s**t.
    The doctor had said I needed to have my dressing changed twice a day and he wanted to do it himself to make sure it was done right so the next day I'm off to hospital again and felt ok because I'd slept. That changed when I had the dressing changed, he's left it as an open wound and packed it with gauze, when he takes that out and changes it the pain is unbearable, plus the pus is still running out like water. 
    He does relent a bit because of my travelling and says it's ok if I find a clinic locally and he will write instruction to them on what exactly they need to do.
    So yesterday afternoon I have to find a clinic locally, I go to one near my house and they ask where is the wound ! Considering I have enough padding on half my face to hide it I decide maybe this place isn't the best option !
    I use another near my house that I've used before and the nurse there seems to know what she's talking about so I agree I will go later to have the wound  redressed.
    At 7pm yesterday I go there. The nurse was true to her word and was excellent, but she was in a panic because the pus was running out again and she had to call in someone to help her, she said after she'd never seen anything like it before. Even though she was good it still hurt so much it was hell.
    So this morning it's off there again, now it's flashing in my mind of when I was a kid and visits to the dentist, I'm dreading it. Sure enough it hurts like hell and I'm about in tears, the nurse though was great and said not much pus today. Dreading it later when I have to go again.
    When I got home afterwards I just felt so down, I can't go out, I have no energy to go out for a walk or the gym, I have work to do but am putting it off as I can't face it and it's seriously hot here, I'm sure I have a fever of some description as I'm hot and cold ? 
    I can't shave or wash my face properly, cleaning my teeth hurts especially when I go to the bad side. I need to go to a salon to wash my hair and right now I am hating life so much it's untrue.
    I often ask God why is he doing this to me, was I a really bad person in a previous life and my punishment is to live out this life ? 
    I need help and no one to turn too, I seriously just want to sit and cry now.
  • @bubblegum... I'm so sorry to hear this, my friend. It sounds like what you're going through is absolute hell. I wish I had a magic wand I could give you to make your pain and suffering go away. 

    No one knows why God does what he does, and I know you are feeling very low right now. But trust me: things WILL get better. It may not seem like it now, but it WILL happen. You just have to have faith.

    Have you seen your counselor lately? I think talking to him about what you're feeling would be a good idea. Maybe he can help you sort things out.

    I'm sending you tons of healing vibes, my friend. I hope your health situation improves very soon. 

    We are here for you.
  • Well I was planning on doing an update today anyway but as usual the unexpected happened.

    This thread started as a break up with an ex that was an addict, then it seemed to turn into a relationship thread and then it was heading for a depression thread, I suppose it's still all relevant but I'm not sure ?

    The operation that went wrong now looks like it maybe ok, I was at the hospital last week and he finally decided the open wound that was packed with gauze twice a day was ok to close up. I refused stitches and we went for those plastic strips to close the wound. Went to the clinic today and the nurse says it's looking good and is dry.

    Depression has been my worst enemy lately, what with no contact with the ex, no gym due to the operation and just a general feeling of "what's the point ?" from me, I've been going out but because I have a big plaster on the side of my face I don't exactly feel my best, or look it for that matter.

    Anyway, the ex's friend should have come round today to pay me some money, guess who turned up ? The ex !
    I have missed her so much it actually hurt to see her. There's been no contact for 7 weeks today, 49 days and then she comes here. Why oh why ?
    We talked, I asked about her customer, she says he now staying here for another 3 months, maybe longer ?

    Are you married yet ? No
    Do you love him yet ? No she said, it's money.
    Are you still smoking ? YES

    She told me she wasn't happy because she'd still never had an orgasm with him, she'd always sworn blind that she could only cum if she had feeling for a man like me.

    She said they'd been out last night and got drunk and she couldn't stop thinking about me all night, ironically I was out last night in the same area with a friend but I had a gut feeling and asked him if we could go elsewhere away from there as I just couldn't have faced bumping into them !, seems like my gut was right again.

    She had to go as I think she was feeling a bit emotional so we hugged and she said she missed me and still loved me and I said the same back to her.

    This has really confused me now, why did she call round ? Part of me thinks it's helped to see her and talk to her ? I need to move on but how can I when I still have strong feelings for her and surely she has for me too ? Confused does not even come close to how I'm feeling now.
  • @bubblegum... First off, I'm glad to hear that your wound is doing better. I'm sure that's a huge relief for you. As far as your relationship goes... I think as long as you keep going back and forth and hanging on, you're going to be miserable. I understand the feelings you have for this woman. And maybe she does still have feelings for you. But the anxiety and emotional pain she is causing you is toxic. Period. That is not the way love is supposed to be. Not even remotely. That's just my opinion.
  • @DeanD You're right and deep down I know that and also that there's no way we could ever get back together especially while the customer is in the picture, but there's no way you can just turn off your feelings is there ? And to be totally honest I'm not expecting any further contact now, I really do think today stung her a lot too but no way is she going to leave the money, she basically said that, she's not totally happy being with the customer but she can't leave the money.
    I think in a way it's helped me to know she still does have feelings for me ?

    At the moment my biggest problem is quite simply getting this wound sorted so I can begin getting some confidence back to go out and enjoy myself again and start getting back down the gym again.
  • @bubblegum... No, there's no way to just turn off your feelings. I know it's not easy, man. But you owe it to yourself to find some inner peace. Take care of that wound, my friend. I hope you can get back to the gym and find some self-confidence sooner rather than later.

    I hope nothing I said in my previous comment sounded too harsh. That wasn't my intent. I just think you deserve to be with someone who makes you happy 24/7/365, without the torment and anxiety I sense you have. THAT'S what love is all about.

    Have a great weekend, my friend.
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