and so it continues...

Hello everyone,

So it's Saturday night and here I am feeling like crap once again. Every other week I work seven days straight (Saturday to Friday) and as it gets closer to the weekend I feel a sense of dread instead of looking forward to doing my own thing. It's only around 8.45pm but my son has been out all day and said he'd be back by 7pm as he wants to get up at a reasonable time tomorrow morning. He met his friend for dinner and a couple of drinks, and I was going to pick him up from the train station at around 7pm. When the time came he said he didn't want me to get him from the station, and hasn't answered my texts when I asked why and where he is. I don't know how much longer I can keep doing this I've been doing a lot of thinking this past week and I really do want to have some kind of life of my own, instead of spending the weekends like this. I know that this is my choice but there are definite signs that he is becoming more self aware and wanting to move away from alcohol and drugs. Its' so disheartening when he goes right back to it. I saw family today and listened to them talking about how well they are all doing. It took all my strength not to tell them that I don't give a f@ck! I hate that this is what I have become. I'm glad I am able to come on here to vent, not only because I have some invaluable support, but also because it helps me to see how I am not doing very much to help myself when I see what I type week in week out. Changing my ways is nowhere near as easy as it sounds but it is something I want to do.

@tiredmom I'm so sorry to read what you have been through with your son when he was resuscitated and @mammakim your son's friend who passed away after she OD'd. It's horrendous. The friend I mentioned - the one who's brother died after being kicked out - has another brother who is also addicted to alcohol and drugs. He has both physical and mental health problems as a result, yet he still continues. His mum has kicked him out numerous times because she simply can't deal with it but she also takes him back in as she can't bear the thought of losing another son. I have a lot of anger tonight, but I also have the same fear and depression I seem to have on a daily basis these days..

@dominica the post you sent in my other thread was beautiful. I hope and pray that all of our son's get the help they need <3
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  • @Deeann. I'm so sorry to hear your weekend is not going well. I have been doing alot of reading and I have come to the conclusion that just because they SAY they want to change, that really doesn't mean a whole lot. Thinking about it, my son has been saying that for YEARS. He may truly mean it, but that doesn't mean he will put in the work to actually achieve that change he says he wants. Also, what I am also learning is a lot of his problems are probably my fault. I am not saying it is my fault that he is an addict, by NO means. That is not my fault! What is my fault is that for YEARS I have enabled his behavior and probably helped fuel his addiction by allowing him to use the excuse of he has anxiety. Or he has mental health issues. That is not an excuse. I'm finding there are millions of people with those same issues who are productive people in social and they do not use drugs. The drug user has a choice. I'm learning the same drugs they claim help them feel better might have worked a bit in the beginning, but then those same drugs keep them in their mental illness and exacerbate their anxiety. Mental illness, is not an excuse. I'm realizing my biggest mistake was to coddle my son because he had these issues. I'm also learning that because I am always there, cleaned up his messes, provided a roof over his head while he used drugs and had all the comforts, why would he want to make a change??? I made everything easy for him. I did for him because of my own fear for him. I couldn't handle worrying about him, so I took care of him. Why would he worry about taking care of himself while he had someone else doing everything for him. I know now it was a grave mistake to baby him like I have. He is like he is today because he never had to face anything he did. I helped to finance and fuel his addiction. I believed too many of his lies and excuses. I'm curious. Where does your son get the money to enjoy dinner and drinks with his friends, while you stay at home worrying about what he is doing? I feel my own behavior has been the biggest mistake of my life. All I did, while I believed I was helping, was help him to stay an addict, and progress in his addiction!! I don't want to be blunt, but I think you are doing the same thing. After 12 years of this, I can't believe that my eyes have opened and I am just now seeing the part I played in allowing this to keep going. When he was in his early 20's I should have put him out and let him feel the consequences. Maybe he would have changed earlier in the addiction and he wouldn't be in so deep now. I don't know. They have all these issues, but they know right from wrong! They know just how to play us. They know how to keep us doing for them. They know just what to say to get our money and keep us close to take care of them. They don't care about what you're going through. They don't care if you are worried, sad, or depressed. It's all about them and what they can get for themselves and how they can have a good time. Your good time means nothing. Your peace of mind means nothing. If you sleep or don't get any sleep means nothing. Their drugs and good time is what's most important to them. It doesn't matter how close you are or if they love you or not. As long as you are there to keep doing for them and you make it easy for them to continue their lifestyle, then they are happy with that. I don't know where you could start to free yourself a little bit. But one option could be to tell him when he leaves to go out is if he says pick him up at 7, if for some reason plans change, then don't bother calling you for a ride. Find another way home and stick to it. If he gets in trouble then too bad. Not your problem. You might also want to insist he goes to some type of treatment facility. Even if it is outpatient so many days a week. I don't think seeing a therapist once a week is going to be the only answer. I think my son progressed in his addiction because he never had to take responsibility. At this time he been using here and there, but it is not good enough. I feel I will continue to let him live with me a little while longer, but if he doesn't continue to improve and keeps backsliding I am going to work as hard as I can to be able to put him out. Even if he ends up in a shelter. There has to be a point where I let him do it on his own. Something drastic has to happen. The only success stories I have found are ones where the parents said enough! Even people with more severe mental illness have been able to change their lives around. No more excuses for our sons! Their biggest problem is not their mental health issues! It's the drugs that are causing the problem. And until we do something different and stop putting up with the bullshit, they are not going to change. I know. I have 12 years of trying just about everything and anything. I wanted him to change, while I wasn't changing anything. I see this now and I hope you will too. Your son like mine literally rules every aspect of our lives. How we feel. When we sleep. Where we go or don't go. We need to start thinking more about ourselves and stop being a slave to someone else's problems. Now about my weekend so far. My son has been fine since his last day he used. Maybe 5 days ago. Last night he went and met a girl he been talking to online and met out a couple of times. She lives over an hour away. He says she is not a drug user. Who really knows. Anyway he end up bringing her home with him because he claims it was raining and a far drive to get her back home. He left about an hour ago to take her home. I don't know what to think about this. I know he hasn't had any female companionship for a long time. I don't want him to be so lonely all the time. I know he is. I don't have a problem with someone coming here if they are NOT on drugs. I don't know what her deal is at this point, but I can assure you, if she is another one of his girls he likes to rescue, she won't be coming back. And if he doesn't like it, he can go somewhere else. I'm sticking to that. I think that is another small thing you could start with. ANYONE who uses drugs with your son should not be allowed in your home. Having one there is enough! That would include the psychology student. Her being allowed in your home, especially after him admitting she uses is like saying you approve of her being a friend. Well I know this is a long post, but I figured reading would give you something else to do besides worrying about your son. By the way, my son looked fine this morning when he got up. He was told the only way she can come back again was if he stayed clean all week. I left it up to him if she comes back or not. That way he can't complain we are unreasonable.
  • @tiredmom thank you for your reply. I appreciate reading your reply when I was sitting here worrying. Well it looks like I jumped to conclusions. My son returned just under an hour ago with a friend. He didn't appear drunk and he said his friend will be going home soon. I don't believe anything until it happens these days so time will tell. I feel there are many things I could have done differently. I sometimes used to work until late evening and my son used to take advantage of that. It was just me and him so there was no one else at home. It was okay when he was younger as he would stay with his grandparents, but as he got older he wanted to stay at home when I was at work. He'd have his friends over, play loud music and they'd drink alcohol. I eventually changed my job so I didn't have to work late. This just made him go elsewhere with his friends. He doesn't usually have people over to drink anymore. He has done so on three occasions this year and I have said that I don't want these people coming back here again. He knows my feelings regarding the psychology student. My parents give him the money to go out etc. despite knowing what it's for. I have told them many times about enabling and I think they are starting to reach a point where they know they need to stop doing it. It's worse when he's working because it just means he's got more money to spend on drugs and alcohol. I agree that they don't seem to care that we are worried, sad, tired and depressed. Whenever I have tried to tell my son how I am feeling he just dismisses it and says I don't need to worry as he's fine. There are times where he says he understands but it doesn't make any difference whether he does or not. He's capable of looking after himself, and often comes home without wanting my help. I pick him up when he asks as I worry about him being drunk or on drugs and just want to get him home. I know this is wrong. I agree that therapy might not work on it's own but he was the one who chose to go there so I'm happy about that. He would have to be referred to an outpatients clinic by his doctor, but that hasn't happened. His doctor was the one who suggested therapy first. Yes, no more excuses! I totally understand why my son used drink and drugs to help him to escape from the terrible things that had happened to him, but I don't think it can be used as an excuse anymore. There are other coping strategies out there to help people deal with life.

    I hope and pray that your son's story about the girl he met is legit and I hope the rest of your weekend goes okay.
  • @tiredmom that's one good thing, my son doesn't bring home a lot of people lately. I told him not to and he has listened to that at least. I am hoping that therapy helps with my son for his coping skills. One thing I am going to try to get him to go to is an online meeting. I found them at smart recovery and they have family meetings as well. We did send him to Adcare meetings and a sober house but I swear he just meets up with other people and creates new networks. I'm hoping the online meeting helps
    @Deeann I get what you are saying with the using to escape things. I believe that is why my son started using too but at some point he has to learn some coping skills to deal with the past and even future issues.

    I truly am at a loss to know if I am doing the right things with him. I really don't want to learn as I go because I'm afraid of making the wrong decisions.
  • I am typing this to show what a complete fool I am. It's 3.15am and I haven't gone to bed because I wanted to see if my son was true to his word and went to bed at a reasonable hour. I heard him go downstairs for a cigarette and he was taking a while so I went down to see what was happening. The door was ajar and my son was nowhere to be seen. He's obviously gone somewhere and now I'm left with this girl, who I don't know, in his bedroom. He promised me he was going to have an early night and he gave me his word. I can feel myself getting closer to breaking point. I can't carry on living like this as it's destroying me.
  • @Deeann By you staying up to see if he was true to his word, just means you didn't get any sleep. Damn it, I would have probably did the same thing. That is what we have to stop. Have you asked the girl where he went? If he doesn't come back soon I would tell her she needs to call family or friend for a ride home!! Let me know how it goes. If he comes back and is high or drunk, that is when I would make a rule, noone in your house, ever until he changes his lifestyle. Just a thought. Don't reward his bad behavior. I'll be up at least another 3 hours. Good luck
  • @tiredmom I also stayed up as I didn't want to make it easy for him if I went to bed as he would have free run of the house. The girl said she doesn't know where he is and looked like she'd just woken up. I've no idea if she had just woken up as I don't know her. My son also loses his keys a lot so thought it was okay to leave the front door ajar at 3am whilst he went to do whatever it is he is doing. I think I'm going to have to have a no-one in my house rule as he's taking the piss. I stressed I don't want anyone here all night and he insisted it wasn't going to happen. He knew he was going to go out as I saw him keep checking his phone just before he went out. I don't want to live this ridiculous lifestyle!

  • @Deeann This is what I am talking about. If you remember I told you about a week or so ago, I had such a good day with my son and a really nice talk. He looked me right in the eye and calmly assured me he had no intention of doing anything wrong. But I really think he was making plans while we were actually talking!! You can't believe anything they say. Even if they mean it at 5:00, their minds can change an hour later. Even if you don't really mind people coming to your house, it could be a place to start to show you are taking some kind of step for yourself and you aren't going to put up with everything he does. Your home needs to be the one place you can sleep in peace. You work hard all week. He needs to at least respect that. I used to feel it was better for my son to be at home at least. But that was a mistake. He still did whatever the hell he wanted and I didn't stop anything. Now I worry if he is out but it is better because I will go to sleep and feel I can't stop anything and whatever happens, happens. You don't have control over anything. I used to believe I did, but the reality is you can't control anything, except your own boundaries. I would definitely let him know tomorrow, that this will not happen again. I'm betting her parents wouldn't be putting up with people in their house up all night. When I would ask my son how come you don't ever stay at someone else's house he would say their parents don't permit it. Really??
  • @tiredmom my son has always been one to say he isn't going to go out etc,then a couple of hours later, he does the opposite. However this whole self awareness thing is new to me. He never used to be so self-aware and say things like he wanted to stop living this kind of life and do more positive things instead. He is able to cut down on the drinking sometimes, which is something he's never done before, so that's positive. I desperately want him to turn his life around so when he says these things I really want to believe him. Obviously I know I can't now and it's so depressing. I'm far from perfect but I didn't bring him up to be this way.
    You are so right when you say we can't control anything except our own boundaries. I just heard the girl leave so maybe she was telling the truth when she said she didn't know my son had gone out.
  • @Deeann For several years my son used and never said he wanted to stop. But on the other hand he has been saying he wants to stop for YEARS, but hasn't. It's so disheartening and depressing because we really want to give them the benefit of the doubt. We want to believe it's a turning point. Sometimes it is, but sometimes it isn't. They may want to change, but maybe they are in too deep. There are so many possibilities regarding their thinking. You believe anything that they say. You can only go by their actions. If I were you, tomorrow after he comes to life after sleeping all day most likely, I would tell him just how you feel. I would let him know, its not o.k. I would scream in his face that you are sick of it and he better sit and come up with a plan. Nothing may change, but you at least will be able to unload your own feelings. I'm not saying scream like a lunatic, but I have the feeling you are always pretty calm with him. I wouldn't do anything for him. Don't cook for him. Don't drive him anywhere. Tell him you are too tired from not getting any sleep and anything he wants he needs to do it for himself. My son used to lay in bed and ask me to bring him a drink and me being stupid would wait on him. I don't do any of that anymore. If he feels like shit, too bad. And if your son would come home all messed up and starts acting crazy you should call the police. Stop protecting him from his own actions. He'll never get better if you don't. It will only get worse.
  • @Deeann I forgot to say it doesn't matter how you brought him up. It has NOTHING to do with how you were as a parent. I live in a very large beautiful home. My son always had everything he needed. My family are very good wholesome people. Everyone is successful except him. There is noone in the family who drinks or uses drugs. We are all middle class people living in a nice community. I raised my son the same as my daughter. She will be a doctor soon. My son prefers to hang out with trash and thinks the drug dealers in the ghetto are o.k. people to be around. He has everything he needs. We have a nice swimming pool and a jacuzzi. If he had nice friends they could come over and hang out. But he has trash for friends. You cannot believe how furious I become some days when I think about how he was raised and how hard we worked for everything nice we have and what it took to have it and live in a nice community. And he would bring the worst kind of people in my home and these people were disgusting scum. In my nice home!! The last time he brought his trash in my house I actually flipped out! I went up to his room and opened the door and said my son has issues my husband and I don't agree with. He knows he is not allowed to have people here so you can't be here. These two guys just kind of looked at me, until I said, that means get the f&%$ out! After that he stopped bringing these people. Yesterday is the first time in probably a year someone has been let in. My son screamed and yelled what a bitch I was but I didn't care. I told him if he didn't like it get out and get your own place.
  • My mum has just texted to say my son has just arrived at her house with a girl whose name is different to the one who was here.
    She's just texted again to describe her and I think it's the same girl he went on a date with on Tuesday night. Apparently he's not drunk or appears to be on drugs and they're all happily chatting. I give up!

    Yes I am always calm with him, but that's how I am in general. I wish I wasn't sometimes, as when, on the rare occasion I do start ranting and raving and telling people what I think of them, it feels so good!

    I'll see what happens later on this morning. I'm still hoping he'll get up early as he doesn't appear to be on drugs or anything.

    Thank ;you so much for being her @tiredmom You have been such a great support and I am so grateful to you. <3
  • @Deeann I'm not sure what time it is there, but that really shouldn't be o.k. to show up at your parents with a girl. And it's a bit ridiculous that he left a girl at your house and got together with another one. It's good to hear he is not drunk. Hopefully he didn't get coke and that is how he was able to stay up all night. I still would tell him he needs to take the community service more serious and you are not happy about him in and out all hours of the night. And I hate to say, but if he really wanted help he would go to some meetings. He is still refusing because he can. Maybe you should go to your own meetings. I am going to look up ones in my area for myself. If you can't help him, help yourself. Get some sleep. I been there and it is harder when we're exhausted.
  • @tiredmom I do feel guilty and blame myself because my family all went to uni and/or have great jobs, etc, but I was the one who became a single teenage parent. I felt I'd let everyone down and I knew it was going to be tough. I swore to myself that I was going to prove that I could bring my son up to be a hardworking, confident, man with a very sensible head on his shoulders. I know that his choices are not my fault but I still can't shake the feeling that I totally messed up!.
    You and your family have done amazingly well! It's fantastic that your daughter will soon become a doctor! You must be so proud :) It does give me hope when you say how successful you are yet your son has chosen to live his life this way...for now. I still believe there is hope for them all.
  • @tiredmom it was about 5am when he showed up and he knows my mum is up early. I do think it was out of order when he left a girl here sleeping to go and meet the other girl. I know that the girl here is just a friend, but he still shouldn't have left her. Maybe he was under the influence of something as it's not like him to do something like that. I'll speak to him after I've had some sleep and see what happened. What a night! can't believe its not 5.45am and I haven't slept yet! I'm definitely going to talk to him tomorrow and set a few boundaries.
  • @Deeann Hello and I hope you got some sleep! I just noticed I missed one of your posts last night. The one where you said you feel guilty about being a teenager and single parent. At one time that was a pretty normal thing. In my mothers generation most girls married right out of high school and some became pregnant before that, hence no birth control at that time. Your age I'm sure had nothing to do with how your son is. Like you, I was very different than my siblings. At 13 years old I met a boy. He was the BAD boy in town. He was the cutest boy you ever saw in your life, and all the girls liked him. Everyone wanted to be his girlfriend. He had something about him that made him irresistible. The problem was, he came from a very bad family. The father was bipolar and his mother was happiest sitting in a bar. There is a very long story regarding my relationship with him,and he had many issues and emotional problems. My teenage years were very crazy with this boy and our relationship was extremely unhealthy, but we were sickeningly attached to one another. I married him at 18 years old. Because of him I didn't go to college. All my siblings did. At one point I did attend business school, but I don't have some fabulous degree. My siblings were saints and I wasn't anything like them. I was the wild child. I didn't get married because I had to, but I was a little over 20 years old when my daughter was born. So I was still pretty young also. I'm sure you did all you could do when raising your son. I know a guy who honestly his mother should have got an award for being the best mother in the world! She did everything right I believe for her son. She was involved in his school. He was in sports and she was at every game. She took him to church and she taught a Sunday school class. He grew up in a nice home and his grandparents loved and doted on him. They took a big family vacation every year. They always had very nice family dinners and the whole family were honestly the best people. But as we speak, this guy is now 39 years old and living in a homeless shelter and a drug addict. He has been on drugs since he was about 17 years old. He put his mother through so much. She end up passing away from cancer a few years ago and when she was dying in the hospital all she wanted was to see him. But he was out getting high and wasn't answering the phone. He didn't even know she was in the hospital, but he knew how sick she was. He's in a shelter now because his grandparents recently passed away and there is noone left to take care of him. The point I am making is It has nothing to do with what you did or didn't do. Sometimes that is just the way they turn out for whatever reason. Don't ever blame yourself for any of it. I can tell you are a fabulous mother. His problems are on him, and him alone. Hope your day is going better today.
  • @tiredmom your story about the 39 year old guy living in a homeless shelter has really got me thinking as the message is so powerful. I need to stop looking into the past and trying to see where I went wrong, because even if this was somehow my fault, there is nothing I can do about it now anyway. We really do have to look after ourselves because their behaviour is going to continue regardless of how much we worry or try to fix the situation. That poor woman dying in hospital and her son was not able to go and see her due to his addiction. That's so sad. My dad is having his biopsy tomorrow. My son loves his grandad dearly but he hasn't changed his behaviour in any way. I think I actually 'get it' now. There is nothing that any of us can do except support them when they decide they want to get help. In the meantime we should be concentrating on ourselves as that is the only thing we have control over. If my son is only thinking about himself then why aren't I doing the same! Whatever happens is going to happen regardless of whether I look after myself or not, so I have nothing to lose by looking after myself from time to time. I see it so clearly now. There is no point wishing that my son didn't have his issues, drink lots of alcohol and do drugs, because that is not my reality. This is my reality whether I like it or not and it is up to me to decide how I am going to deal with it.
    I'm going to try another Al-Anon meeting on Wednesday.
    I hope you have had a good day :)
  • I keep thinking about that woman dying in hospital and wanting to see her son one last time, but he was getting high on drugs. It's so so sad. Life is tough.
  • @Deeann That woman never cared about anything except for him. She did everything for him. Even as he became an adult she was always covering for him. Giving him money constantly. Bailing him out of trouble. Paying his fines. She confided to me she ran up all her credit cards buying for him. She wanted some nice things for her house, but couldn't afford them because he took everything she had. She was never able to see that she wasn't helping him any. She made every excuse in the book as to why she should keep giving to him. She didn't stop taking care of him until she was too sick. Then the grandparents tools over. They were wonderful people who had money at one time. He sucked them dry to the point they could barely get by themselves. Both grandparents passed away within the last year. Now he is in a shelter about to turn 40. He can't do anything for himself. He rarely worked. And he end up with a wife and kids. Now his 19 year old son is an addict too. He has a 2 year old in the shelter with him. He adores that child and does make sure she is fed and clothes, but I don't know it he'll ever get it together. He has never had to do much of anything and everyone made sure he was always nice and cozy and taken care of. Now they are gone. It is sad.
  • @Deeann Hey y'all. Sorry I'm late to the little gathering here, but my weekends i'm not on the computer much. I'm sorry to hear that your weekend has started off in such a way. It seems as if you have wrapped your world so much in his that it really is causing you a lot of emotional distress. I'm glad that you are seeing this and that you want to do something different. But you have to do something different if you want a better quality of life.

    Chances are that your son does want to change, but he doesn't want it enough to actually do what it takes to make the changes. It's easier to stay doing what he's doing. And I've heard enough recovered addicts tell me that they told their loved ones exactly what their loved ones wanted and needed to hear so that they could continue living without having to take responsibility for their lives. Even if they do it on a subconscious level, they're telling you what you want to hear.

    Perhaps you can go to some meetings consistently, and I still think attending therapy might be helpful for you, as you navigate this time in your life. I know you struggle with the issue of him living with you, versus you giving an ultimatum or another option like having to go to outpatient treatment if he is to live with you. I do believe that a therapist can help you learn to set healthy boundaries for yourself in a way that you might not have to kick your son out. Yet still hold him accountable.

    I hope that you're able to get some sleep.
  • @tiredmom that's just horrendous! It's a perfect example of what enabling can do. It doesn't help at all. All it does is allow the addict to live more comfortably and when the enablers are no longer around, the addict is in no state to take care of themselves because they never had to in the first place.

    I need to read more about addiction to help me to understand how it works, and how to beat it. @DeanD you recommended a book to me about the ADHD brain, but I've forgotten the name of it. I'd love to read the book.
  • No worries @dominica My aim is to attend the meetings on a regular basis so that I can see if they are going to be beneficial to me. I can't make him go to outpatient treatment as he would have to be referred by his doctor. It would cost far too much money for him to be referred privately. His doctor is seeing him on a regular basis so he might come up with something like that after my son has finished the counselling sessions. I should probably book some counselling sessions like you said, but at the moment I'll start with the Al-Anon meetings as I know that realistically I won't be likely to go to counselling just yet as my brain isn't in a place for doing that right now. I think I would be too defensive, but I am working on that as I know I have to.

    I hope you have had a good weekend.
  • @Deeann There is so much more to that story. She was one of my very best friends for years. At her funeral I noticed he left the building and I wondered where he was. He was a few doors down sitting at the bar drinking. I know he really loved his mother but he never learned any coping skills. He never learned really much of anything. Everyone catered to his every want and need. He had money to go party every weekend and was the best dressed drug addict around. He was always provided nice clothes and shoes and anything else he wanted, while his mother was always a nervous wreck trying to pay for it all. He lived with her for awhile, then the grandparents. It was easier for them to just give him what he wanted. I saw him a few months ago with his baby. I took her for a short while and looked her over real good to make sure she was o.k. She did look healthy and well fed, but I bought a bag of diapers and food and told him he better get his shit together real quick or he might risk losing the baby. His wife was always a very sweet and good person, but eventually she turned to drugs too and is a mess and doesn't care if he is the one who has the baby. If you knew this family, you would wonder how the hell did he end up like that. They are the most wonderful people you would ever meet. And his mother was always a stay at home mom. That didn't make any difference.
  • @Deeann glad to hear about the meetings... counseling when you are ready, dear :)

    my weekend was good! thanks for asking!
  • @Deeann Hello. Just checking in on you to see how the rest of your weekend went? I hope went o.k. Were you able to talk to your son about bringing people to your home and then just leaving them there. Also about leaving the door ajar? I know what you mean about him losing his keys. My son loses EVERYTHING. He has never been given a key to our house because he would lose it for sure and who knows what or who would end up with it. I never mentioned it before, but my son has a lot of very valuable music equipment in the house. Computers and very expensive music programs in the computer. Anyway, he has been good for the past couple of days since he last used. He is quiet and calm and been mostly watching tv and eating and sleeping a little more than usual. I just hope he can keep it up because he sees the doctor for his monthly shot this week and I don't want him to screw things up. He needs that doctor. Yesterday I made a nice dinner and my granddaughter came to visit and she hung out with me and I carved some pumpkins for my porch. I love those quiet, normal days and I try to take advantage of them while it lasts. I just got back from picking up the Beyond Addiction book at the library. I will start reading it tomorrow because I have a slight headache today. Probably from digging out the damn pumpkins. Inflaming the muscles in my shoulders and neck. Can't blame my son for this one! Lol. I did want to mention that years ago I went to some Naranon meetings. I thought those people were crazy! I kept thinking wtf are they talking about? There's nothing wrong with me! It's the addict with the problem. I just DID NOT GET IT! Now I get it !! I think I was in an much denial as my son. I didn't understand what they meant by just about everything. Now I think I definitely understand what some things mean. But I am going to read the book and hope it sinks in. Lol. So give the meetings a chance. I think I will go back. It makes much more sense now. I went looking for a way to fix HIM. I was thinking, what do you mean I can't fix him?? It wasn't what I was looking for at the time. I wanted someone to tell me how to fix him. So give it a chance. I think it will really help . Hope you're having a good day!
  • @Deeann... I'm sorry to read about what you went through with your son this weekend. As long as things like that keep happening, you're never going to have any sanity. I think what you need to do is work hard at establishing boundaries for your son. Yes, he's an adult. But he's living in YOUR home, so you have every right to establish the rules of the house. In fact, I think you HAVE to establish some rules. If you don't, he's pretty much got it made. A nice, warm place to live...and the ability to do just about anything he wants to do while he's there.

    There's a really good book out there that I think could help you with this process. It's called Setting Boundaries with Your Adult Children: Six Steps to Hope and Healing for Struggling Parents. It's kind of a "tough love" book, but it's full of some very useful information. I urge you to check it out.

    What your son did the other night--bringing a girl home and leaving her there while he went out in the wee hours of the morning--is really inexcusable. He's living in your HOME, not a hotel.

    Sorry if anything I said sounds harsh. That's not my intention. I'm just tired of you having to deal with all the craziness that your son's behavior brings about. YOUR LIFE MATTERS, TOO!!!

    Sending you love and hope today.

    P.S. Don't ever feel guilty about not going to university or being a single mom. None of this is your fault. Remember: You didn't cause it, you can't control it, and you can't cure it.

    Love and hugs, my dear. <3
  • Hi @tiredmom I had to work today but I've been thinking about what you said about your friend who passed away from cancer. It's heart breaking and definitely struck a chord with me. It's not something I'm going to forget any time soon. I wasn't able to talk to my son yesterday as he was in bed all day. I enjoyed the calm and quiet despite feeling extremely tired. I did speak to him about leaving the door ajar but this is something he has done since way before he starting drinking or using drugs. He leaves the door ajar when he goes outside to smoke, then sometimes he doesn't close the door properly where he's concentrating on the next thing. He has lost countless keys over the years but he is getting a bit better. It's such a worry isn't it. I remember years ago I came home and the door was open! I was scared as I went inside, in case it wasn't my son's doing, but it turned out my son just forgot to close the door when he went out.
    I'm glad your son has been quiet and calm for the past couple of days and I hope that all goes well when he sees the doctor. It's lovely to hear you spent some time doing normal things with your granddaughter. Carving pumpkins sounds like fun. I am reading the Beyond Addiction book but I need to read it more often. I don't know why I don't as it's a great read so far.
    I know what you mean about expecting to be told how to fix your son. That's what I came on here for and I was shocked that I was told there's nothing I can do to fix him and I should do things for myself lol. The reality is sinking in more and more each day but there is still a tiny part of me hoping for someone to come along and tell me how I can make him stop. I think a part of me wanted to separate myself from everyone else at the Al-anon meeting. A lot of people think I'm in my early thirties and - for some reason - think I live a fun filled life. This is going to sound incredibly shallow but I like it because I can pretend I am that person, even if it's just for a second. It's twice as hard as a lot of the time we are judged by our appearances. When I spoke about my son at the meeting one of them 'corrected' me and said 'You mean your partner' when I said 'My son' I also realise that I didn't want to be associated with families of people who abuse alcohol and drugs. I kept thinking to myself 'it's not that bad' and 'he'll stop soon. ' I will go to another meeting this week. I am gaining more understanding about my situation as time passes by. I know I need do what I can to help myself and my son.

    I hope you had a good day.
  • @DeanD thank you for the book recommendation I'm going to look it up tomorrow as I could really use it.

    I agree that what my son did was inexcusable. I am sooo embarrassed when I share my weekends on here, but I do it because I need to read for myself just how awful and ridiculous my life can be. It's so easy for me to play down the events of my weekends as I am so glad when they're over that I don't want to think about it too much. But when it's on here in writing, I can't deny any of it.

    You're right! I didn't cause it, I can't control it, and I can't cure it. My life does matter too! It's taking a while, and some days are more positive than others, but I'll get there. Thank you for persevering with too @dominica <3
  • @Deeann You don't have to be embarrassed about writing things here. We all know that life can be messy and things don't always go as planned. And what your son does or doesn't do is not a reflection of you or your parenting.....

    And as much as we'd like to think we have control over things, the reality is that we don't. I heard someone say recently ......."you think it feels good to have control, but think about how good it can feel to let go of that control. It struck a chord with me.

    OH, to just let go, huh? would feel pretty light I think... free.
  • @Deeann I hope this week goes better for you. I also wanted to "fix" my son. It is so hard to watch someone you love destroy themselves day after day. It makes my anxiety go crazy.
    My older son kept losing the keys to his truck, I ended up making 12 copies and giving him one when he lost his. I think he's getting better with that though.
  • @Deeann I'm glad you had some peace and quiet yesterday at least. I know what you mean when you talk about appearances and people getting the wrong idea about you. I am over 50 , won't say how much over, lol, but I have no gray hair, and don't need to color it, and I am the exact weight I was when I was 21. People don't believe me when I tell them my son is 30 years old. Or they think he must have been born to some dumb 14 year old. Then I am forced to tell my age. Anyway, the only way we may be able to fix them is to fix ourselves. I'm still learning. I'm hoping when my son sees I am changing, he may be more apt to change himself. If he doesn't at least one of us will be better. I do know what you mean by just wanting to forget what happens and just move on, but I think you should have the conversation sooner than later. That way he can't say that was a week ago, why you bringing it up now?? I hope you have a lock on your bedroom door, since he forgets and leaves your door open. Hoping tonight is good and tomorrow too.
  • @Deeann... Ditto what @dominica said. Please don't EVER be embarrassed about sharing here. We're here to help, support, and listen. No matter what! I'm sure most people here has seen and heard just about everything there is to see and hear about addiction. Plus, your sharing lets others know exactly what can happen when we have a child struggling with addiction. So try to think of the stuff you share as educational for others...not embarrassing for you.

    Have a wonderful day, my friend!
  • @Deeann If I sat here and typed the embarrassing things my son has done over the years and still, I would still be sitting here typing and it would be this time next year when I finally finished listing it all!
  • Thanks @dominica @tiredmom @mammakim and @DeanD you're right, the stuff I share can be educational to others, plus it enables me to get support too.
    @mammakim The key situation is crazy isn't it! I often lose my keys but I do eventually find them. goodness knows where my son's keys get to.
    @tiredmom I hate that I feel forced to tell my age whenever anyone knows I have a 25 year old son! Other people don't have to do that but I'm expected to give details. And then depending on who asks, they might get others to look at me and guess how old I am! The twenty somethings might say 'Oh wow! I thought you were young' and others simply don't believe me. No wonder I have hang ups about my age lol.

    I've only slept about 4 hours a night since Friday, I have lost my appetite and I have a lot of energy despite feeling so tired. It's like my brain has gone into overdrive. I've been avoiding sitting at the compute, where I can, at work because I feel restless and want to burn off some energy. I can't see a light at the end of the tunnel and I keep thinking that this is as good as it gets. I hope I can sleep a bit longer tonight.

    I hope everyone has had a good day.
  • @Deeann I too have had periods like that. I am sure it is brought on by stress and anxiety. I think I myself might get a little bipolar hypomania at these times. I get anxiety and I clean to distract myself from thinking too much. And many nights I have difficulty falling asleep and sleeping peacefully and instead have fitful sleep. I really hate that. Then there are other times I wake up and have an immediate feeling of doom. I hate that even more. I feel like that quite often. My son is o.k. so far today, but he is trying to go somewhere and wants gas money. I'm not giving him any money though. My anxiety is a little bit higher today because he got up and immediately left the house. He just came back and is o.k. But I can't help wondering what he was doing. He doesn't have that many friends. Oh well. I can't control anything! I hope you are able to get some sleep tonight. It will definitely catch up with you. How about some nice chamomile tea
  • @Deeann @tiredmom I get that anxiety and sense of doom feeling too. I pace, it drives hubby crazy. Or I get that cold wave of fear that paralyzes me. I have lost my appetite too, I have lost over 30 pounds (I mean that isn't bad because I was a bit tubby anyhow).
    I always kind of freak out when he leaves the house alone. His problem is that he has too many friends, some of them are good but some of them are in the same boat as him.
    As far as sleeping, I usually only need about 4 or 5 but I have been waking up every night between 3 and 4 and can't get back to sleep. Drives me crazy, I end up watching infomercials, luckily I don't have money so I can't buy anything.
    I hope you all have good nights :smile:
  • @Deeann, @tiredmom, and @mammakim... Big hugs to all of you. I am familiar with all of the feelings you all have. Just know that you are not alone. But remember: You didn't cause it, you can't control it, and you can't cure it!
  • @tiredmom that's exactly what I was thinking about myself. When I typed how I was feeling, it made me think about Bipolar as the symptoms are similar to a hypomanic episode. Quite often I wake up with feelings of doom too. It's horrible as when I open my eyes upon waking I feel fine, but then about 2 seconds later it hits me. @mammakim 30 pounds is a lot of weight to lose due to stress. I'm glad it hasn't left you underweight. I end up watching infomercials too, but during the early hours of Sunday I found myself watching an episode of The Kardashian's. I draw the line at that. I need to sort myself out and quick!
    I might just buy myself some chamomile tea tomorrow. It's been the same today, I've had about 4 hours sleep, hardly eaten but had lots of energy. I'm off work tomorrow so maybe I'll go back to the gym to see if I can use up some excess energy.
    My son has had a few beers this evening and just 'popped out' to see his friend. He says he'll be back soon and he is going to do community service in the morning. He seemed genuine but the truth is I have no idea if he is where he says he was going, or if he will come back this evening and go to work tomorrow. I hope he will be true to his word but I just don't know. It's not fair that we all worry about our son's like this when they aren't giving us a second thought. I hope both of you and your sons have been okay.

    Thank you @DeanD I love that quote!
  • @Deeann I am pretty sure what I experience at times is definitely a little hypomania. However it is never bad enough to make me lose my common sense thank goodness. That feeling you had about two seconds upon waking is anxiety. That is what a professional told me. That feeling is so horrible really. I just got back from taking my mother food shopping. Glad that's over. Lol. So far so good for my son today. I'm trying to stay positive, but I figure he'll be messing up again soon. I know you will probably worry about what your son is doing tonight, but that won't change anything really. Besides the tea, perhaps some melatonin if you continue to have trouble sleeping. ? I have a gym very close to where I live but am too unmotivated to join. I hate exercise. I get bored in about 1 minute. I'd rather work in the yard, dig, cut grass, hike or whatever. But I am getting older and I really should think about some type of exercise routine. So far even my vanity hasn't helped to motivate me. Lol. Hope your evening is peaceful and your son is good on his word.
  • @Deeann Definitely not underweight LOL I have an affection for chips. :smiley:
    I hope your son makes it to community service. Mine has to go to court in the morning to ask for more time to pay his fine for driving without a license. We drive ourselves crazy with worry.
    @tiredmom I used to go to the gym with my daughter, I always brought my IPOD and either listened to a book or music. My IPOD is my savior at work so I don't have to listen to all the gossip queens. Sometimes I hate working with other women, they can be so petty. I used to bring my mom and two of my great-aunts to the grocery store every Saturday when my dad broke his leg. I have to admit, it's like trying to corral cats when three old ladies scatter in the grocery store LOL I loved taking them though.
  • @mammakim Taking my mother to the grocery store is like trying to keep a snail moving. One that looks like she don't know where she is! Lol I'm cracking up right now!
  • @mammakim you gave me a good laugh with that comment about corralling cats. I'm still laughing at that and my mother in the grocery store. Lol
  • @mammakim that’s so strange! Yesterday at work when I was trying to gather some service users I joked that it’s was like trying to corral cats. Just as I thought I was getting somewhere, someone would wander took forever but it was a comical situation. I never usually use that term, so it took me aback when I read it in your comment. I hope your son gets on okay at court today.
    @tiredmom it is a horrible feeling and I I feel powerless to make the anxiety go away. I find the gym boring too but it really helps me. I listen to music or a podcast when I use the cross trainer, otherwise I wouldn’t be able to do it. It sounds like you already get a lot of exercise with the physical tasks you do each day. I’m glad your son had a good day yesterday. Mine came back at 6.30am and says he’s going in to do the community service in a few hours. We shall see. I had 5 hours sleep but I didn’t lay awake worrying about what time he was going to come back. My worry/anxiety appears to have changed. I’m having these hyponania type symptoms 24/7 instead of my usual feeling okay and having hope some days, then completely freaking out when he has alcohol/drugs. My stress levels still rise when he drinks etc,but it’s different. Maybe this is what it’s luje when you give in and start to accept your situation.
  • P.s when I went to wake him this morning he was fast asleep and I saw there was someone beside him under the covers. He never used to do this. Plus the door wa ajar again. I should have checked
    I am the weight I should be for my height but I’m pretty sure if I was happy and content I’d be a lot heavier!
  • @Deeann... Please consider setting some boundaries for your son. He seems to think he lives in some kind of hotel instead of your home. :#
  • @DeanD you're right. He has slowly got worse this year. The people he does community service for have been great, and his counsellor has been great. I am starting to see that all of this being lovely and understanding is just making him feel more comfortable about not having to make an effort. Life is tough but there are so many good people in the world who are willing to help. I'm so pissed off right now, I'm going to go for a run.
  • @Deeann Dean has a point about the hotel... nicely put. I know it's rough... tough love is not easy.... but it IS love. healthy boundaries is love in action. Great you're getting out for a run.... that can help blow off steam for sure.

    Have you ever sat and made a "rules" list with your son? Write out a contract...have him sign it. ?? just a thought. even if it's just a couple rules for now.... and just tell him that his shenanigans is affecting you in every way... mentally and physically. and for your own sanity and health, you must start making some changes.... even if they are little... have another solid chat with him.
  • @Deeann Sorry you had to start your day getting pissed off. My first thought was, why is he coming home at 6:30 a.m.? Was he up all night because he used? Or did he wake up somewhere and decide to come home and sleep before community service. I will be surprised if you say he made it to the community service. I know both our sons are forgetful and also lose things, but you shouldn't have to be asleep and your door isn't even shut, let alone locked. Don't be offended, but I think your son has the attitude he can do whatever in the hell he pleases and there won't be anything said or done about it. And more so for both of our sons, anxiety is the perfect excuse to not get their shit together. I took my son for his monthly shot for moods today. Of course he starts telling the doc about his anxiety and wanting to be prescribed klonopin. Doctor said no and gave him a low dose of neurontin instead. He said that would help with the anxiety and heal his brain. I like this doctor. He is helping him. We also went to another place and got the orders for blood work, as he is thinking about getting the Vivitrol shot. He just has to stay completely clean for 10-14 days. I hope he can do that, or I am going to knock his head off! Lol I have been getting a whole lot tougher on him and he is making some improvements, even if they are small ones. I think you need to tell your son like it is and if he complains about a couple of rules you can say well if you don't like my rules, then go get your own place! Not saying you are throwing him out, but if that is not how you usually respond to him, it might just surprise him! He might think, wow, she is pissed! He knows he has it made. He seems to have a great social life even though he isn't working. Someone is paying to keep his addiction going! Girl, I think it is time to snap out on him. Surprise him with some toughness. There is a difference between being supportive and understanding, and being a doormat. If being sweet and nice all the time got a person to change their ways, there would be no mothers dealing with addicts. I hope you are o.k. And hope your evening is better than your morning was.
  • @tiredmom Shopping with them was comical, we would get in the store and they would scatter. My job at staples moved to South Carolina so I opted to take the severance package because my dad had fallen on ice and shattered the bone below his knee so he was out of commission for six months. He was usually the driver, I kept telling him he was faking it so he didn't have to shop with them. LOL

    @Deeann I'm not sure if I have ever used that expression either. Haha I hope your son got up to do his community service. Does he get in trouble if he doesn't go? My son's court was fine, he had to go to extend his time to pay a fine.

    There are so many anxiety medicines out there. My son was taking celexa but he kept forgetting to take the pills. Not really effective. I'm hoping his counselor will prescribe it again and maybe I'll tell him to put an alarm on his phone to try and remember it.
    I hope you all have a good day
  • @mammakim I know what you mean about them forgetting to take their pills. But this is what I could never understand. If their anxiety is so bad, why don't they have their meds on their minds.? I think because it isn't the drug they really want! They want their drug of choice! I would tell my son, I bet if your druggie friend had free dope for you every day, you would remember to hurry up and go get it. They whine about their issues and when someone tries to actually help them, they are not fully on board with THAT kind of help. My son was prescribed neurontin today. I didn't even get a chance to pick up his script because the minute he got home he went right to the pharmacy and got it without telling me and of course took more than was prescribed! I was furious! I told him no sooner do I feel proud of the improvements he is making, he does something shady and then I lose trust again. He wanted $5.00 for gas to go to his friends and I refused to give him a penny. I did get the script from him. Of course there is probably 20 missing so I know he gave them to some idiot friend for who knows what reason. They don't really do much of anything. I know I shouldn't insist on holding them but I can't help to wonder if he takes them properly, will they help his anxiety? His anxiety must not be that bad or he wouldn't be giving them away! Sometimes I wonder if they will ever get it?? I am just not sure when I should give up. He keeps saying he has come a long way, and he has, however he has a long way to go yet. Talk about cranky. That really made me cranky, but I said F%&$ it, and went to my mothers and played cards with her. Then he showed up and hung out and laid on the couch. I was disappointed in him, but he didn't get dope, so I will try to see something positive. You, myself, and @Deeann , all have sons who complain of anxiety issues. What about our anxiety!! I think half of their anxiety is caused from using and thinking about using! ?? I will say a prayer for all of us.
  • @tiredmom... It would be great if your son could get that Vivitrol shot. I hope he can stay clean for 10-14 days so he can get it. And so you don't knock his head off. People need their heads. ;)
  • @Deeann crossing my fingers for A GREAT WEEKEND FOR YOU!!! Self-care. Boundaries. Good fun and good sleep. Calling it in! ;)
  • @DeanD I was cracking up regarding your post and your comment about people needing their heads. I laugh at myself sometimes how goofy I get when my son upsets me. I was thinking his head on a pole might make a pretty scary Halloween decoration, if it comes to that! LOL
  • @tiredmom $5 for petrol?!?! if I put the equivalent of $5 into my car it would barely give me enough petrol to drive out of the petrol station lol. It was really strange to read that as it's so expensive over here.

    I'm glad that your son has a good doctor and I hope that he can stay clean long enough to be able to take the Vivitrol. You have got me thinking about anxiety. I used to have anxiety when my son was very young, and it stopped me from doing many things. I used to have a lot of panic attacks and Sometimes just being awake was enough to give me a panic attack, but I was determined that I wasn't going to let my mind 'win' and become a prisoner in my own home. I was lucky because the job I had at the time involved a lot of lone working so I didn't have the pressure of anyone noticing me 'acting weird' if I felt anxious. I wanted to go to work, earn my own money and do normal everyday things just like everyone else does. Long story short I changed my diet, saw a counsellor and made sure I did something every day to try and work past my panic attacks. It took a couple of years but I got there. I know that the brain is very complex, and that the same mental health illness can affect us all in very different ways, but I do struggle to understand my son's behaviour sometimes. He had issues (ADHD) before he began drinking and using, but the alcohol and drugs make it all worse and I wish he would find a positive way to deal with his issues. My son forgets his anxiety meds too sometimes. I understand how people can get addicted to things, but I don't know what it feels like to be an addict. I think Neurontin is Gabapentin? I know that it's used to treat Epilepsy but had no idea it is also used to treat anxiety...unless I've got the medications mixed up.

    @mammakim I'm glad your son was given more time to pay the fine.

    No he didn't go to community service today, but he said he's going to go on Sunday and do an extra shift next week to make up for not going this week. I think he knows he has to do it soon otherwise he'll have his probation officer to answer to.
    I have read and taken on board everything you have said @dominica @DeanD and @tiredmom. I know you are all right in what you say and I know I have to make a lot of changes. I know that I can't carry on living this way, I have no life and I'm not doing my son any favours either.

  • @Deeann It's really great you were able to work hard and get past your anxiety issues. I also had anxiety problems when I was younger. I never had panic attacks and I was able to be EXTREMELY social and outgoing, but I would wake up and have that immediate feeling of doom since I was a teenager. Not every day, but often. Of course I had chaos in my life back then also! You know I get aggravated when my son would forget meds. He sure wouldn't forget if someone had some drugs for free to pick up every day! Of course their anxiety is exacerbated by alcohol and drug use. Yes, you're correct. Neurontin is Gabapentin. The doctor claims it will help with anxiety. I think my son took too many because he ran to the pharmacy and got the script and a bunch are missing. I have been pissed off since yesterday. I hate it when he does shady things like that. Now today I am still feeling pissed. So I told him now he only has enough to take them 2 times a day instead of 3. I personally think he is getting a little bit hyped up from them and if that is the case I will tell the doctor next time. Anything my son gets it seems like he will obsess about it and keep wanting another one. I told him if he starts up with that crap again I will flush them down the toilet! I think if you take enough of them you can get a little buzz. I'm holding them now. He is always searching for energy. Anyway, our petrol is $3.15 per gallon. Yeah, $5.00 would just get him about our little town, but I said no, and stuck to it. I told him as long as he is pissing me off, don't expect me to give anything, because all he gave me was grief and a headache! And you are correct you are not doing him any favors by allowing him to have free reign of your home and his lifestyle choices, if they are making you so unhappy. I will eventually get there with my own issues with my son hopefully. I hope you have a happy and peaceful weekend. If he doesn't follow through on his community service on Sunday I would call the probation officer and say hey, maybe you should have a talk with him. Just a thought. I'm to the point, that is something I would do, myself.
  • @tiredmom UGH , I can't imagine that the anxiety pills will do anything. It's weird that he either took them or gave them to someone. anxiety pills are not addictive are they? I am pretty sure ativan can be but not sure about the others.

    My son seems depressed today, he is getting discouraged because he is looking for a job and hasn't found one yet. I would rather him get a job at UPS but he's looking at third shift. He needs a job but it makes me nervous that he will have money.
  • @Deeann hopefully your son goes on Sunday to his community service.
    I have anxiety, I'm not sure if it is hereditary but it's a pretty awful feeling. Right now I can control it but (either that or I am numb to it) but I used to have panic attacks in stores. Sweats and my heart racing, I had to force myself to stay in line to pay for my stuff. Crowds freak me out, I hate being super close to people.
    I hope you have a peaceful Friday
  • @mammakim Anxiety meds aka benzodiazepines are very addictive. He is not getting anything like that. What he was given is really nothing but I am figuring some dummy gave him $5 or $10 for them. Some addicts will take anything. Who knows. I'm just tired of him always thinking like an addict. If that makes any sense. I know what you mean regarding worrying more when they have money. No matter what they do or don't do, I guess we worry no matter what. Motherhood is a curse! If your son starts working maybe you can talk to him about saving some money if he is financially able. For something he can look forward to.
  • @tiredmom I hope you are feeling better today. Know what you mean when you say about them doing something shady, especially when they appear to be having a positive day. I hope the Neurontin works out for him.
    Wow $3.15 for a gallon of petrol! A gallon would cost me at least £6. I'm glad you didn't give him the money if you didn't think he should have it. When my son asked me for money for beer during the week I said no and about ten minutes later he went out to meet someone and was out all night. That was the night he came home at 6.30am the next day. It didn't make him stop drinking.

    @mammakim it was the same for me whenever I went to the shops. The bright lights, the crowds, the queues when waiting to pay for your stuff, going out of the cold and into the warm shop....I hated it all. My heart would race, I'd feel hot and clammy, and I'd feel like I was going to faint....or even die! There were times where I wouldn't be able to wait in the queue to pay for my things, so I'd abandon my stuff and rush back to the safety of my car. I kept going back because my stubbornness wouldn't allow me to give in. I struggled on trains, car journeys, and I'd make sure I stayed near the exit whenever I was out somewhere. I'm nothing like that now but the anxiety sometimes presents itself in other ways. I still hate crowds, especially at Christmas, and I avoid it wherever I can.

    My son's addiction is worse when he's working, and he spends his money way before the next pay day is due. I really want him to be working but at the same time I dread it because when he's got money in his pocket the worry is even worse. Motherhood is definitely a curse! It's the hardest thing.

    I hope the weekend is going okay for both of you.
  • @Deeann I know not giving my son money isn't going to stop him from using. The main reason I don't give him the money is because he needs to learn the word NO. That is a word that for YEARS he never heard. I have been hounded by him constantly wanting or needing something to the point I would feel like I was going to jump out of my skin! He would be absolutely relentless and it caused me so much anxiety. I have given him so much money and replaced so many things he either lost or sold. Thinking back I think he got half of my salary when I was working. Now I give very little and I say NO! And I stick to it most of the time. He is starting to stop asking me over and over and over until I give in, because I stopped giving in. He is slowly learning what the word means. Also if I am pretty certain he will probably do the wrong thing with it, it is a definite no. If I were you I would just tell your son you don't like him drinking and don't approve of it so don't ask you for money to do so because you aren't going to be a participant any longer. Then stick to it! I know what you mean about working and having money and then perhaps the issues get worse. Then let it get worse until he loses the job and it's another lesson he will learn. He has to feel the consequences of his actions or he will just progress and get further into the addiction. The longer it goes on the harder it is for them to change. That is just my opinion. I've seen it over and over with many different people. He must fall on his face at some point. You can't catch him every time he has a problem or how will he learn? Well my son was out late last night. I don't think he used drugs but he didn't sleep much so now he is in bed early and I am glad about that. I had my mother over for dinner. I made stuffed peppers and mashed potatoes. She enjoyed it so I am glad I could do something for her. I'm hoping your weekend is going good. You need to find yourself a honey, if you don't already have one, and have some fun yourself and put your son aside one or two days a week. Lol. Sending you good vibes and luck for the weekend. And peace too!!
  • @Deeann Hey there! I hope that your weekend went all right! Did you get to do some things for yourself and enjoy it?
  • Happy Monday, @Deeann. For sure let us know how your weekend was when you get a chance.
  • @tiredmom I agree with everything you say. Problem is my son has fallen on his face many times but hasn't appeared to learn from any of it. He has shown signs of self awareness for the first time this year, so I haven't given up hope. I have to have hope. I'm glad you had a nice day on Saturday I hope your Sunday went well too? I've been single for about a year and I'm kinda put off of finding myself a honey because if anyone eventually found out about my situation, they'd run for the hills! I want to run for the hills most of the time so I know for sure that anyone else would too lol.

    Hi @dominica and @DeanD I had to work this weekend so not much time to do anything for myself. My son had a friend over on Saturday, and she went at 11pm.. My Son stayed home and then went to community service the next day. I didn't sleep much on Saturday night because despite my son giving me his word that he wasn't going to get really drunk etc, I didn't know if that was really going to happen. I went to bed early last night and slept for 9 hours. I can't remember the last time I slept for that long. That was the best thing for me as I've only been sleeping for four or five hours for the past couple of weeks and was starting to feel like I was losing the plot. I still feel restless and don't have much appetite, but it was so great to wake up this morning and realise I had slept for 9 whole hours.
  • So glad you got some good sleep last night, @Deeann! Try to do it again tonight. You are so worth it!!!
  • @Deeann I know what you mean about having hope. That is about all weekend can do I guess. And it is definitely a good thing he is becoming self aware. My son is also becoming more self aware, but the changes are so damn slow. As I have said previously, he is better than he was, but he is not there yet. Honestly, I question if he really wants to be clean from his drug use? He hasn't given up the people who he uses with. He is still using even if it is alot less, and less often. The people are still in his phone and he is still giving rides and getting drugs. So I really don't know what to do at this point. I've done about all I can do. He has all these resources and people helping him, but I don't think he is making the most of it, and I am running out of options regarding him, other than the BIG ONE! Throwing him out. I don't think that would even make a big difference. He'll probably not get his shot and go back to being a delusional mess and probably end up dead. But some day when I surely can't deal with it anymore, I might have to let him go in spite of the outcome. He keeps wanting to hang out with me in the evening, which I have no problem with. We been talking and watching tv, and he has been calm and pleasant, but I think he might have got a little suboxine from that guy I hate! I don't want him messing around with that either. I did find out that guy has a hearing for violating parole! I hope he gets to jail. He is the one who tempts my son constantly and my son is not strong enough to just say no some days. My son keeps telling me he needs to stop hanging out with him, but then he does! It's gets so aggravating and old! I wonder if they fall on their face enough times, then maybe they will want to change? It's just so hard dealing with this shit. I get angry at myself because I am 100% sure if this was some boyfriend or husband, I wouldn't even flinch and I could throw him to the curb in a heartbeat and then run him over with my car and not give a damn! Lol. But my son. Totally different story and it is rough. Hope you are having a good evening.
  • Thank you @DeanD your words mean a lot.

    @tiredmom I was so excited when I first realised that my son was becoming more self aware, I mistakenly thought he was going to suddenly stop drinking and doing drugs lol. It's so frustrating when the help and support is there but they don't appear to want it. My son was really chatty on Saturday night, which made me wonder if he had had any cocaine, even if it was just a small amount. I hate how I question everything, but then I guess I have good reason to. It makes me so angry when I hear about people tempting others with drugs. I hope he gets jail too.

    Haha You do make me laugh. Wanting to throw a partner to the curb and then run him over are definitely the words of someone who has taken way more that their fair share of crap! I know I wouldn't be able to handle dealiing with anyone else who is like it, and nor would I want to, Like you say, when it's your adult child, it's a very different story.
    My evening has been okay. It's 11.10pm.. My son has been to a football match and I'm just about to pick him up from the train station. I'm happy to do that as there has been no drink involved tonight. This is another first. I hope you are having a good evening.
  • @Deeann That is good your son is at the match and no alcohol involved. I would say something like, "It's nice seeing you do something you enjoy where alcohol is not involved, and I am really proud of you at these times". I have been telling my son positive things as often as I can. I know he loves hearing it. However, today I did tell him it's starting to get cold. All the shelters are going to be full and if you want to be at home in your cozy bed and eating all the delicious winter meals I make that you love so much, you need to come up with a better plan to stay clean, than what you been doing. He said he would of course. But we will see. I'm not holding my breath. I'm glad I made you laugh. That was the intension. My family thinks I am quite the character. That is what they love about me though. I've always said exactly what I was thinking. My son couldn't take some of the things I did to his father when I was trying to get him off drugs and alcohol. I made it absolute torture and hell for him to continue using. And it worked on him. I don't think he could endure the misery of some of my actions. I can laugh about it now that I am older. When I was young I was a force to be reckoned with. Lol!
  • @Deeann I forgot to mention that last night my son was going to go meet up with someone to record music. At least that is what he said. Anyway, I was feeling better bit worried because it was really dark and was raining and I wasn't sure if he was telling the truth. Anyway, I figured whatever, let him go and don't worry about it. So he gets in his car and the key would not turn in the ignition. So it's not working and he had to stay home. I'm glad. I told him he brought bad karma to the car because he has been going to the wrong places in it and driving that idiot around.
  • @tiredmom I always praise my son and tell him I'm proud of him when he does positive things. He never used to take it on board when I used to say it. He'd just say I'm only saying it because I'm his mum and that's what mum's do. Now he appreciates it when I say these things, which is good. I like your comment about the shelters being full. Haha I can see you are quite the character. gutsy and say what's on your mind, yet very thoughtful and caring. I admire that. Your son's father was an addict too? What did you do to stop him from using? Is he clean now?
    So your son's a musician? I'm glad his car wouldn't start if you were worried where he might be going. It's horrible when you can't trust what your own son says.
  • @Deeann I'm glad you got some sleep, you must have needed it. I worked all weekend as well. It's month end so it has been crazy at work plus we are getting hurricane orders from Florida.
    I also tell my son I am proud of him, although I haven't lately for his efforts to stop using. The reason being that every time I do he tells me later that he was using and it made him feel guilty,. I will have to start telling him that I am proud of him for other stuff right now.
    @tiredmom hanging with older friends is a concern I have too. It drives me crazy He hasn't been the past few days which is a relief. He did ask to get a new phone number so maybe that is a step in the right direction.
  • @mammakim Glad he is wanting a new number. That sounds very positive. I hate the people my son goes with sometimes. Absolute hatred and I have to let that go.
  • @mammakim... I think wanting to get a new phone number is a good sign. My son did that at one point so that the guys he bought drugs couldn't keep calling/texting him asking if he wanted anything.
  • @mammakim yes, a new number could be a new direction!! @tiredmom i pray a lot that good and positive role models will come into my son's life!!
  • @mammakim @DeanD @dominica I think it is definitely a good thing with the new phone. My son got new phone numbers then end up putting the same contacts right back in. I think mammakim son is serious and my son just plays with the idea of staying clean. He says he wants to but he keeps those friends just in case. It gets him every time. At one time I had many emotions regarding his addiction. Now I just have one. ANGER. Everything pisses me off.
  • @tiredmom awww, i hope you can begin to feel less anger.... :)
  • @dominica It would definitely be good to feel less anger. Over the years I dealt with someone's addiction through my teens to early 30's . I got a nice reprieve for about for years. But then it all started up with my son for the 12 years. I have felt depressed, despair, confused, hoplelss, sad, frustrated, sickened, disgusted, emotionless, numb, you name it. Now it is mostly Anger. I'm sick of it. Don't get me wrong. I can get through the day pretty well, but when my son uses, I just feel angry about it. I'm going to start reading the beyond addiction book tonight.
  • @tiredmom great bout starting that book.... it's time for you to feel some better emotions consistently!! I do understand when it comes to being attached to our children's Behavior and allowing it to affect us. That is something that I work with on a consistent basis. And I'm not perfect at it, but I keep working at it.

    We're always learning aren't we? We simply want better for them don't we? And we don't want them to suffer. And then there's the part of us that takes it a little bit personal when they're not taking responsibility for themeselves or living up to their potential....and so on...

    A learning process, huh? ;)
  • @dominica Yes you are right. Sometimes I do take it personal. And for many different reasons I guess. The things I have done and the things I have gone through with my son are just insane! Imagine dealing with someone who not only is a drug addict and bipolar but who also had a brain injury that started it all. The stories I could tell! And it doesn't help that I am extremely stubborn. Lol But mostly I think I not only get angry at him, but at myself for allowing him to effect my life so much. That is what I really need to work on. I used to try and live my life and not concern myself with him so much, but after performing CPR on him when he overdosed, it just plain pisses me off! Now I think I have PTSD! When he uses he is an absolute freaking weirdo! I have never seen anyone else on his drug of choice become so goofy. He is extremely hard to be around at these times and it makes me ill seeing his behavior like that. And then I want to rip his face off, but I don't. I actually get a migraine just trying to stay calm and not react on my anger. I need help! I'm going to read the book and maybe get a therapist. He has been much better than he used to be , but he isn't there yet. But he really has improved tremendously compared to how he was. I'm thankful for that at least. And this forum does bring me some comfort.
  • @tiredmom i cannot imagine.... and i could understand feeling angry...and probably fearful....

    i think a therapist may be helpful... but i always put a plug in for therapy. ;) you're here and that's something. receiving and giving of yourself to others....

    <3 hope you have a beautiful friday!
  • @tiredmom you have to tell me what mean things you used to do to your husband to get him to quit drinking.. I have tried everything and I am on the verge of getting divorced. The sad part is whether I get divorced or not, I am still going to loose everything. All due to his drinking. Please help me. What did you do?
  • @2feelgood The things I did to him were goofy and immature because I was only 20 years old. It was mostly things to make him absolutely miserable and I wouldn't let him enjoy his buzz. It would be embarrassing to even mention some of it because it was stupid and didn't really work. So remember I was young and immature. If he came home drunk and barely able to move I jumped on the bed until he got sick. I moved around his belongings then accused him of doing it and of course he wouldn't remember doing it so he thought he must be getting worse. And I put chocolate laxative pieces in the brownies I made him. He was always in the bathroom. I told him no wonder! Your system is a mess from all that drinking. And of course I fought with him about it. But seriously, it didn't make him stop drinking. It just made me feel better knowing I was giving back some misery. I'm only telling you some of these things in hopes you can have a good laugh. He didn't stop drinking until a few years after our divorce. Then he eventually picked up a new addiction. The only option you have at this point is to file for divorce. You might get lucky and it could be the kick in the ass he needs. He may decide he wants help and then again, he may not. But the best thing for you is to get away and make a new life for yourself if your husband doesn't want to change. Only he can do this. Unfortunately, there is nothing you can do, but take care of yourself. Sorry I couldn't give you an answer you were probably hoping for. Hope you have a good evening!
  • I am so worried about the financial end of things. He is 67. I am 52. He is on social security. Only works part time and collects from his IRA. He is a fall down hurt himself all the time drunk. He is on my health insurance through work. The problem is if I divorce him I don't think that I make enough money to make the house payment on my own, and/or sell the house and give him half. Which I don't want to do. Where I make more than him I would probably have to pay him alimony. If I don't divorce him I am afraid he will get hurt, Have a heart attack or anything to lose that income and devastate me with medical bills. It pisses me off cause I have worked so damn hard all my life just to end up back at square one no matter which way I turn. And he just lives in lala land. Spending money and not having a clue if we have money or not. If I try and tell him anything he won't remember anything I say. Last Sunday I was away from home.. He got in the shower drunk (again) fell and broke the faucet off the wall. Acted like nothing happened until he went downstairs a couple of hours later to get something to make for dinner. That is when he discovered the basement was flooding. He didn't even know how to shut the water off. So I had to come running home, shut off the water and call a plumber on a Sunday and fix the problem. Then he got pissed because I was pissed. Told me I was just being a bitch and it was just an accident. THESE KIND OF ACCIDENTS HAPPEN ALL THE TIME. The next morning: Oh, I am so sorry. I know I have a problem, I know I have to stop. Blah, Blah, Blah.. Over and Over again. @tiredmom your mean things were very funny. Unfortunately, nobody is laughing anymore.. He still thinks he is funny but he is really just a miserable, ignorant drunk.
  • @2feelgood I have a few ideas on your financial situation. I'll post a little later as I have company coming. But I know the type of drunk you are describing. My mother dated a man for several years that got to that point in his addiction. Always falling down. Well one night he fell down the outdoor stairs and broke his neck. That was his last fall.
  • @2feelgood ii'm sorry you' have to go through all this.... i can imagine it would get old very fast.... the house deal would be tricky.... and scary to think of having to afford it all yourself. not sure what i would do, but i may talk to a lawyer to see what your options are.... you shouldn't have to live in misery like this....

    hoping @tiredmom will have some good insight and advice too....
  • @Deeann i hope your weekend goes well!!!
  • Sending some Saturday love, light, and hugs full of hope to all of the strong women in this thread: @Deeann, @tiredmom, @2feelgood, @mammakim, @dominica... I hope you have a good day and an even better weekend. Take some time to love and care for yourself today and tomorrow. You all deserve it so much! <3
  • @2feelgood I can imagine your worry. I have been in the same situation as you at one time with the only difference being I had two young children to take care of. Depending on how badly you want out of the marriage or how serious you are about getting out of the marriage will say alot regarding what sacrifices you are willing to make to escape the life you now have with Mr. Fall Down Drunk. First,let me tell you it CAN be done. It might not be easy but you can make the break and survive! Regarding his medical bills should that arise. Even though you are the one carrying the insurance, he is an adult and YOU are not responsible for paying them. He is. If he were a minor child that is a different story, but he is not. Also, you worry about paying alimony. Well let's just say he wants alimony. I don't know how long you have been married but you are probably entitled to half or some of his IRA or pension if he has one. You could always negotiate taking a little less of that from him if he agrees to not insisting on alimony. And if he doesn't agree, take every penny you are legally entitled to with your marital rights. You could possibly get a consult on this with an attorney at least for little or no money. I would take whatever money you have that you are able and put it aside just for you. Also you need to sit down and make a list of just how much money it actually costs to have him in your life. Example: If he drives, how much would you save if you no longer had his car insurance to pay each month. How much less do you think your water or electric bill be if it were just you in the house. How much does it cost for his portion of food. And the big one, how much of his income actually goes to purchasing the alcohol he drinks? Subtract all that from what he brings in each month and see what you are actually left with! You might be surprised at how much of his income goes to him. You know what your expenses are so just figure that part out. I know it is hard to give up a home, but what's better really? Living in that home where you are miserable, or giving it up and having a peaceful and happy life.? You have to decide. I don't know what his income is, so I can't really say if it's possible for you to keep your home, and I don't know how much money you would have left if you were to sell it. Is it possible to purchase a smaller and less expensive home down the road? Would you be willing to take in a roommate to help with expenses? Could you see yourself living in a cozy apartment if only temporarily? These are things you must decide. Do you want a house or a life of peace and happiness?? You are only 52. You have some good years left and you are still young enough to meet someone else at some point and have the life you deserve. Living with an addict or alcoholic is a miserable life. So how far are you willing to go to get to the place you want to be? If your husband doesn't want to change, then there is absolutely nothing you can do! First do the math I talked about. When I left my husband I had a realtor come in and give me an idea of my homes value. You can do this while husband is at work. If you're really serious you can start to clean out things you don't really want or need in case you decide to sell. Doing that is actually very empowering! It gives you the sense you are doing SOMETHING to move forward no matter the outcome. Also it is a good feeling to have everything organized and ready if you take that leap. Let your husband see you getting rid of things and when he asks what the hell are you doing just tell him you are taking the steps you need to get yourself and house in order because you are leaving him due to him being a drunken fool. It might wise him up, and if it doesn't then all the more reason to get out. You can also talk to your bank should you keep the house on your own. You can possibly refinance in your name only. Or you could explain your situation and the bank may be willing to do what is called a moratorium on your loan. That basically means that for a short time period, possibly 6 months or so you will only have to pay the interest portion of the loan to allow you to get on your feet. I don't know your financial situation or income so I can't advise you on any other potential services you may qualify for. But there are programs to assist people with their utilities if they meet certain income guidelines. I just helped a young girl obtain these types of services. She was left alone caring for a young child on her own and needed some help. I don't know if your husband ever gets abusive or what his behavior would be should you decide to leave, but if you feel unsafe you could get a protection order against him. That is one way to get him out of house, while you are taking care of things. Sometimes we just have to give up certain things in life to have the better life we deserve. I had to give up a home once and it hurt pretty bad because I bought it when I was 19 years old. An alcoholic ruined that for me, but I moved on and eventually got a bigger and better home. It can be done. I hope some of these suggestions helped and hope you are having a good day.
  • @DeanD Thanks for sending the love! I'm sorry you are having to find new living arrangements for I believe you said your inlaws. That can be so hard and it certainly doesn't help how expensive these places are today. So best of luck finding something suitable. Relax and enjoy your weekend
  • @dominica Hope you're having a great weekend!!
  • thanks @dominica and @DeanD. I hope you both had a good weekend.
  • i'm not sure why these posts get jumbled out of order at times.... @Deeann might be time to begin a new thread???
  • I'm going to close this thread, @Deeann. Please start a new one when you're ready.
This discussion has been closed.