University Link (PSST to UW-Husky Stadium)

AdvanceNotice: University Link (PSST to UW-Husky Stadium)

$1,947,682,000


Project Type:	AdvanceNotice
Project Owner:	Sound Transit
Location:	Washington, United States, King (WA), Seattle (WA), Times Square (WA), 98101
Estimated Value:	$1,947,682,000
Estimated Jobs:	N/A - Congressional Budget Office As compared with 21230 - White House Council of Economic Advisors
Category:	Construction - Roadways, Construction - Bridges and Tunnels, Design-Build, A/E - Transportation
Market Sector:	State/Municipal
Publication Date:	06/17/2009
Description:	FEDERAL ECONOMIC RECOVERY SPENDING. Transit Capital Assistance - FTA. Agency: Sound Transit. Project Title: University Link (PSST to UW-Husky Stadium). Description of the Investment: The University link (U-Link) project consists of design and construction of a 3.15 mile extension of the Initial Segment from the Pine Street Stub Tunnel (PSST) to the University of Washington (UW) Station with an intermediate station at Capitol Hill.. STIP 09-07 Amendment Estimated Total Cost: 1,947,682,000. ...

Vote on this Project

Here is what 466 people think:

49.4% - Worthwhile (230 Votes)

56 - Energy Efficiency
63 - Environmental
87 - Long-Term Value
24 - Short-Term Value

50.6% - Unnecessary (236 Votes)

55 - Fraud/Abuse
34 - Not Competitive
147 - Too Costly

Comments (53)

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Cascadian

Nov-11-2009 02:52:28 PM

This is a very worthy project. It is the highest-rated transit project in terms of projected ridership per dollar anywhere in the country. It is much cheaper and more effective than any alternative. It creates jobs right now and will provide a spur to development around light rail stations. The short and long-term economic benefits far outweigh the modest amount of long-term debt this will create.

rocco

Nov-11-2009 01:05:04 PM

As a Seattle resident that was raised in Chicago, I cannot stress enough how improtant this link is for the city of Seattle. 1) our city is growing, and becoming more and more dense. this trend is going to increase, therefore we cant keep using the same streets and bus systems BECAUSE... 2) traffic is terrible. the streets are beat up, example 45th st in the universtiy district, the mercer corridor just to name a few!

John

Oct-09-2009 11:56:10 AM

How can the state justify cutting healthcare spending and educational cuts and put in a tunnel that "will" cost more than estimated by double and maybe triple by the time it's done, possibly more when you calculate in all the fraud and other missuse issue! As for those comments from people from other states why don't you just stick to running your state and stay out of ours!

Cascadian

Nov-11-2009 03:06:27 PM

Reply to John : Cost overruns will not be that high. Given current economic conditions it's possible the costs will be lower than the estimates, because property acquisition and construction costs are affected by the recession. (Example: the bid for the Capitol Hill tunnel came $20 million under estimate) Also, debt on bonds for construction will come with very low interest rates. Finally, most of the financing here is local (Sound Transit) and not the state. So it's not competing with education and health.

Greg

Feb-18-2010 03:00:08 PM

Reply to John : People from other states should talk all they want to about OUR money being used for your incredibly expensive project. Keep the comments coming!

Steven

Sep-24-2009 11:07:05 AM

This is absolutely a great idea, IF it is the precursor to building a FREAKING tunnel across Lake Washington to link Bellevue/Kirkland with Seattle that can handle a million passengers a day. Ironically this would be paid back in health benefits… making people walk a mile a day (what is the % of fat people see commuting in NYC verse Seattle). Bottom line a subway is 50 years overdue, stop whinnying and just do it!

Cascadian

Nov-11-2009 03:00:26 PM

Reply to Steven : Steven says this should be done as a precursor to a Seattle-Eastside transit tunnel which would carry a million people per day. Actual numbers of people crossing the bridges today are about 280K (120K on 520, 160K on 90). Even if everyone used a future subway, you wouldn't get those ridership numbers. Actual projections for right-of-way separated light rail on the bridge are 44K. Compare that to the UW tunnel's 70K and you see why it's the project to start with.

Al Flenner

Sep-23-2009 07:55:54 AM

I agree with 'Seattle Resident'. If this project was really necessary, and due to Seattle's great industrial and economic growth within the last 50 years, industry would have forced legislation to approve funding and, the project would have already been completed at a much lesser cost. Look at industry for the necessity of economic growth, NOT the government. The government's job is to PROMOTE industry : not PROVIDE industry.

Cascadian

Nov-11-2009 03:11:01 PM

Reply to Al Flenner : Industry has been supporting rail on this corridor for the last 40 years, but the voters didn't approve it until recently. Had we built the heavy rail system on the Forward Thrust ballot in 1968, this would have been running more than 30 years ago and the entire system now proposed through 2030 would be finished, at much lower cost. This would have promoted 30 years of additional economic growth and development in the city. Luckily we eventually learned from that lost opportunity.

Seattle fan

Sep-23-2009 05:26:00 AM

I've ridden the Link and thinks it's a fantastic addition to the Seattle metro area! It was started pre-stimulus so I think it's safe to say that local dollars are also funding it. Growth costs money people. We have to think long term when it comes to the environmental cost of having more cars on the road as well as the ability for people to commute into town who can't afford a vehicle etc. This will spur proper growth.

Seattle Resident

Sep-13-2009 11:23:17 AM

Once again we're footing the bill in the short term for grand visions that will never be realized. The Seattle monorail was built in 1962 for the World's Fair. It was never expanded. Today it has an origination point - Westlake Center Mall - and a destination point - the Science Fiction Museum. Nothing in between. No economic development. What a freaking joke. If Seattle was serious about public transit WHY WASN'T THAT EXPANDED AT, OH, ANY POINT IN THE PAST 50 YEARS?? Here we go again.

Cascadian

Nov-11-2009 03:16:08 PM

Reply to Seattle Resident : The monorail was never meant to be a working system; it was a demonstration project. Seattle followed up that vision with a real plan for a metro rail system in 1968. Voters turned it down. Voters approved the line in 1996 (including the UW segment) and its expansion in 2008. We lost a generation to naysayers but we are building a system now. The long-term debt for this will be minimal compared to the benefits in the meantime.

Sandra

Jul-31-2009 05:36:10 PM

Two billion dollars for a little over three miles?? I don't get it. For that price we could install a fleet of taxis and pay the fares. (or how about a sky-tran like they have at the amusement parks?? That way people could travel and enjoy themselves without traffic.)

Dr Doo Little

Aug-07-2009 05:59:28 AM

Reply to Sandra : That would not work sandra. $1Billion of taxis @$25k is about 40,000 taxis @~15 feet long is a bit over 100 miles of taxis. I.e. you would need about 15 lanes in each direction for deadlock.

Jul-28-2009 08:15:34 AM

I agree with the people below that it's a little confusing. Maybe they could point out more clearly what is recovery-related and what isn't rather than relying on the govt supplied text in the description.

Seattle citizen

Jul-25-2009 02:30:43 AM

It should be noted that the majority of the cost of this project is being paid for by local taxes. Only $44 million is coming from the recovery act. I think Onvia needs to get their facts straight. It should also be noted that this project has received the highest rating from the FTA of any project in the nation.

Mike

Aug-04-2009 08:27:43 PM

Reply to Seattle citizen : Are you crazy?! Okay, so the local taxes of Seattle, WA are going to pick up the other (close to) 2 billion?! Get a clue. The entire Washington State budget for the next 2 fiscal years is 70 Billion, (which is going to put your state in serious debt by the way). Your budget (like the federal government's) is based on rosey tax income figures. That's a budget at the state level. You're going to tell me the Seattle budget (the local taxes you speak of) is going to pay for this?! Nice try...

Just Wondering

Aug-05-2009 05:07:29 PM

Reply to Mike : What are you arguing against Mike? I'm unclear as to what your point is. What are you against here? Optimism?

Cascadian

Nov-11-2009 03:18:23 PM

Reply to Mike : The taxes come from the Sound Transit district, which includes the urban areas of the state's largest three counties. It's paid for by sales taxes used to purchase long-term bonds. It's not all being paid the year of construction.

bik_boss@hotmail.com

Feb-14-2010 08:27:12 PM

Reply to Seattle citizen : toshiba

banders

Jul-20-2009 10:29:49 PM

Onvia r.org should adjust the accounting method to count only ARRA09 funding in the individual project and rollup totals. A reading of the text shows that only 44M of the total amount for this project comes from ARRA09 funding sources. The remainder probably comes from non ARRA federal, state and local sources. It may be necessary to add an additional attribute or make the existing funding attribute an object with funding term and value associated

Dr Doo Little

Aug-07-2009 06:01:17 AM

Reply to banders : If you could provide a link for some sort of proof that would be helpful. It would be interesting to see where ALL of the funding of this comes from.

Daron

Jul-20-2009 04:59:34 PM

And if you don't believe me, then think about this. What country currently is investing billions abound billions of dollars in public transit, roads, and green energy and green jobs besides the United States? And due to this has helped to continually grow their economy at 8-11 percent? China....... It works people!

SC Civil Engineer

Jul-21-2009 09:50:37 AM

Reply to Daron : It does work for the communist dictatorship of China. They also control their people with brute force and regulate how many children you can have. This is not a sustainable path for our country to recover. The federal government can not employ everyone with tax dollars from it's citizens. This project may be great for the area, but it shouldn't be funded by the federal government.

Cascadian

Nov-11-2009 03:27:32 PM

Reply to SC Civil Engineer : China does not use slave labor or collectives to build infrastructure. They have companies backed by investment capital, just like the rest of the world. Their government is repressive but their economy is capitalist. The shift away from communism started 35 years ago with the opening to China by the Nixon administration. Governments around the world, including ours, have subsidized infrastructure projects throughout history. The feds spend less on this per capita now than 50 years ago.

Daron

Jul-20-2009 04:52:41 PM

Thus, this line will actually be a significant boost to the overall economy of Seattle. Now those who work at Microsoft will truly have the time to make a quality operating system :-) Is it expensive in the short term? Yes. Will it create only temporary jobs? Yes But in the long term it will be great for the Seattle area and economy. You have to look at the long term to truly understand why Obama pushes for the agenda he does.

ex-MS

Oct-29-2009 09:38:38 AM

Reply to Daron : Except for the fact that it doesn't go anywhere near when any of the people at Microsoft work... Seattle/Puget Sound/King County has been consistently unable to provide realistic transit to some of the regions largest employers.

Cascadian

Nov-11-2009 03:31:18 PM

Reply to ex-MS : Sound Transit 2 will go to Overlake Transit Center, at 40th and 156th. Microsoft is located on 3 of the 4 corners of that intersection, and immediately across 520. Commuter rail already serves many Boeing workers. Downtown Seattle and downtown Bellevue are the two largest employment centers in the region and both are served by Sound Transit 2. As for the UW tunnel, it serves the UW, the key regional university and a major regional employer.

Daron

Jul-20-2009 04:49:57 PM

Furthermore, 70,000 to 100,000 people are expected to use this line a day, which is roughly 25 percent of the single passenger cars currently on I-5. 30,000 of those folks will use this line and the new SR-520 Bus Rapid Transit(grade separate) system which is 27 percent of the single passenger cars on SR-520. Economically people will not lose as many hours of work due to traffic congestion and folks will be able to work more efficiently as they can telecommute on their bus or train ride.

Buford Orley

Jul-20-2009 06:40:12 PM

Reply to Daron : By the time they would complete a project this size it will be XX years late and XX billion dollars over budget, as well as not having kept up with the increasing traffic demands during the long construction period, thereby creating an even worse nightmare for commuters. This is another bad "elitist" pipedream and not the most practical solution for efficiently solving traffic congestion by any stretch of the imagination.

Mike

Jul-20-2009 07:42:14 PM

Reply to Buford Orley : I agree with you Buford. In addition to your comments, I would like to add that this is something that should be done at the state level. If Washington (the state) is unable to afford it, sorry. This does nothing for the common good of the people of America. I am currently unable to afford a BMW, therefore I will not be driving a BMW. Period. That's how the REAL world works. In Obamaland, this is clearly not the case. Spend now, worry about it later when it's too late. Ridiculous.

Cascadian

Nov-11-2009 03:35:34 PM

Reply to Buford Orley : You don't know how much over or under-budget it will be, thus your use of XX. Any project can have overruns, and rail lines are no more prone to them than highways. There is no highway project for the same money that would be less disruptive and serve 70K-100K people. Congestion will likely rise even with this tunnel, but 70K+ people won't be affected by that congestion, and congestion will be better than if we had done nothing.

Cascadian

Nov-11-2009 03:39:25 PM

Reply to Mike : Why should the entire state pay for a regional project? Regardless of who's paying for it, this IS how the real world works: projects are paid for not with cash but by financing. But this isn't a BMW--this is equivalent to a mortage on a modest home--only with much lower interest rates and a much higher return on investment. Interest rates are historically low right now and inflation is non-existent so there's never been a better time to invest in our future. Benefits far outweigh costs.

Daron

Jul-20-2009 04:46:59 PM

This line will help reduce traffic on the 2 most congested freeways in Seattle. It will allow folks who work downtown to arrive at work from the north much faster and it will allow those who work in Redmond, home of Microsoft, a much easier public transit option from Seattle(along with the new Bus Rapid Transit line on the new SR-520 road and bridge). If free Wi-Fi is available, which is feasible as many of the current buses have this, folks will be able to work right when they load the train.

Laurence

Jul-17-2009 10:12:29 AM

Considering the fact that the govt can't even get the address right (Times square?) I'm just happy they found the state long enough to dump a big fat transit project on it. Thank you Sound Transit I look forward to the completed project!!

ryan

Jul-12-2009 04:19:35 AM

i can think of a ton of things i could do w/ 2 billion dollars. If the point of a stimulus is to get jobs out there and get people working again i dont see why we are spending the money on very expensive projects that only pay out low wage jobs. I believe that jobs that build roads are great but cheap roads that get the employment rate up and still serve a purpose. It worked before

Jeff Davidson

Jul-11-2009 02:28:08 PM

Divide the posted cost by the posted jobs created and it comes out to $92,167.42 per Job. Most of these jobs are going to end when the project is over so where is the benefit in that? I don't see where they posted estimated ridership on this 3.1 mile rail but I think we could use this 2 billion for a greater good. The math does not lie, this is pork.

Steve

Jul-11-2009 07:36:24 AM

This is so far out there to spend this much money togo to a stupid football game , while this state is cutting back on the benifits for disabled people

Not from Washington

Jul-09-2009 12:14:50 PM

This is a ridiculous waste of money for what you get from it. As a taxpayer who does not live in WA, there must be hundreds of other more worthy projects in this country. This is a little train project, right? 3+ miles long that will relieve some traffice problems in a tiny part of Seattle. I assumed that some money would be wasted on an effort the size of the Recovery efforts, but why is the most expensive project one of the most ridiculous in terms of benefit????

Concerned Seattle Guy

Jul-10-2009 08:56:14 AM

Reply to Not from Washington : In reply to NFW first let me thank you for your generally civil tone, and while I agree that in general transit projects seem to be almost impossibly expensive these days sometimes stuff just needs to get built. I can't argue that this is the most important thing we could do with the stimulus money for the country, but the game rules were that whoever had "shovel-ready" projects in the pipeline got to step up and grab some cash. I wish that more states had more admirable things ready. But nope.

Dr DooLittle

Jun-30-2009 06:30:34 AM

JB: Making a high-demand area in more demand only provides economic gain to that area, i.e. a handout that only benefits yourself. You should invest in your own selves, not the entire nation invest for you. CSG: "hater" is the typical asinine comment... your reasoning for this project is to "clear(s) up the huge jams these games cause"... which is a p-poor reason.

Concerned Seattle Guy

Jun-30-2009 04:09:57 PM

Reply to Dr DooLittle : Hey Doc get your own "hand out"! Ha ha. They are called taxes and they get collected and then they get spent on stuff. It's a great system. Thanks nation! It's not my fault that my neighborhood needs mass transit more than toxic waste cleanup but I'm happy to pay for yours with my taxes. Why you gotta hate : )

Dr DooLittle

Jul-01-2009 07:44:51 AM

Reply to Concerned Seattle Guy : CSG: Always great to see libs prioritizing their "core beleifs": education, healthcare, blah blah. This money would increase wash pub school funding by about $2000/student. What about the children? WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN!? WHAT ABOUT THE CHOOCHOO!

Concerned Seattle Guy

Jul-01-2009 08:39:25 AM

Reply to Dr DooLittle : I guess I see your point. Never mind. We should never ever improve our infrastructure. Thanks for opening my eyes Doc!

Dr DooLittle

Jul-02-2009 06:08:20 AM

Reply to Concerned Seattle Guy : OK one more sound byte from me... Mr Butler said it best that this is a "no brainer".. perfect description of a choochoo costing more than its length in diamonds.

Dr DooLittle

Jun-25-2009 10:22:00 AM

A 2 Billion Dollar Choo Choo for releif of traffic congestion during SATURDAY football games. They play only 6-8 times per year. Over 100 years that is 3 Million dollars spent per game.

Concerned Seattle Guy

Jun-25-2009 04:01:06 PM

Reply to Dr DooLittle : I will guess that at least some of the 65000-ish people who work and study across the street at UW might benefit from it on days other than Saturday too BUT I will agree that the prices on transit projects always seem to boggle the mind these days. Capitol Hill gets a station too by the way. Whatever haters.

John Butler

Jun-26-2009 04:11:48 PM

Reply to Dr DooLittle : As a former UW student this seems like a pretty big no-brainer to me. Traffic is horrendous in the U-District, and the buses going downtown and every other place are packed most times of day. If you think something like this isnt needed and wont have broader implications for people trying to use either 520 or I-5 I think youre pretty out of touch.

Dr DooLittle

Jun-30-2009 06:33:29 AM

Reply to John Butler : $2B = 10000 x $200k buses

Dr DooLittle

Jul-02-2009 06:01:37 AM

Reply to John Butler : As a former UW student, you could figure out that this $2B will cover about 8 years' worth of tuition revenue for all students in the school. Is adding 15-30 min for commute really that bad?

Eileen

Jun-23-2009 09:43:58 AM

The tax dollars should not be paying for another staduim. WSU paid for theirs so can UW. This is nothing but a money grabfest. The taxpayers spoke earlier this year the government just turns the other way and does what it wants.

Concerned Seattle Guy

Jun-24-2009 03:12:44 PM

Reply to Eileen : Another stadium? What are you talking about? This project is about expanding mass transit to reach the existing stadium. Seems like a win-win to me. Especially if it clears up the huge traffic jams those games cause. Montlake on Game day? Foggetaboutit!

Concerned Seattle Guy

Jun-19-2009 10:58:56 AM

Wow. That sounds like a HUGE project! Expensive, but anything that improves mass transit here is worth every penny in my opinion. The stadium is a huge revenue generator and easier access is a win for everyone.

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